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I think a lot has been said already, but I would want to add that I don't think the media understood it. It wasn't just young people, and some of the people who were there were employed and making a decent amount of money.
OWS protestors were rightfully Moderator cut: language about the fact that the US is an oligarchy-- which is fair.
Last edited by Oldhag1; 04-28-2014 at 09:33 PM..
Reason: Language. In this forum not even the **** version is allowed.
I think a lot has been said already, but I would want to add that I don't think the media understood it. It wasn't just young people, and some of the people who were there were employed and making a decent amount of money.
OWS protestors were rightfully about the fact that the US is an oligarchy-- which is fair.
Yes. Some were quite well to do. Majority were probably struggling in life.
It seemed that the main message is an intellectual one: capitalism isn't working and the US is an oligarchy.
That is a theoretical and broad take on the problems in this society. It was also idealistic and tries to be all encompassing. You can't do anything with that approach. A movement without leadership is merely a dialog or discussion. And that was what it was, a discussion of raising awareness. Sounds like a college course. And it was no surprise that the movement was led by highly educated white middle class people.
The people who were excited by OWS were the ones who already understood their cause. I don't think the movement attracted that many new supporters. Income inequality? Who hasn't noticed that in the last two decades. No need for a movement to remind them.
Last edited by Oldhag1; 04-28-2014 at 09:34 PM..
Reason: Edited quote
There are no more Lalapalooza festivals or other such means of entertainment these days so generation Y took a break to party. OWS was their Woodstock.
They have been conditioned, via their parents/TV/movies, to believe slacking off is cool so they did what any sitcom figure does...shucks priorities and does what he wants for whatever length of time it takes. Watch 2 1/2 Men and think of the moral of the episode. Do the same with Broke Girls,Big Bang theory or Modern Family.
There goes your OWS.
Go ahead and ignore the OWS movement at your own peril - because OWS was a warning shot across the bow.
The NEXT movement may very well turn violent, and if there must be a third one after that, I have no doubt it will organically become a revolution even if it wasn't intended to.
The cold, hard fact is that the middle class is shrinking and the American Dream has become just that, a dream, to many, many people. Our particular brand of capitalism simply doesn't work. Period.
It isn't that everyone is against capitalism, it's how capitalism is handled - namely that what is going on today is just a modern version of the classic medieval raping and pillaging of the nation. It's all about short-term profits, laying people off to increase stock values, and big "e-peen" profit wars to see who beats whom on the Forbes' list. Thus wages are kept low, products are made just well enough to keep people buying them but not well enough to be considered a durable good, customer service sucks, service providers fee you half to death, and all businesses privatize profits while passing debt on to the public.
And as more and more people slip into poverty while fat cats get fatter, prices and profits continue to soar, and the wealth gap reaches critical mass - I can almost guarantee you that there WILL be a reckoning that will make the storming of the Bastille look like a Sunday school picnic.
The problem is that it won't be a revolution as much as it will be a civil war - only because there are just enough ignorant, brainwashed people who've been suckling at the teet of Limbaugh and Beck and Fox News for the last 20 years - who, despite their own poverty, will blindly fight on the side of the rich man.
ows didn't have a leader or any representations/ clear connections in the political realm that could actually put change into practice. any political movement without these things in north america cannot succeed in the long term. not in this day and age.
had a leader emerged who was in some kind of office, i suspect ows would have risen past the green party's level of recognition, but still have been very far from the more standard 'respected' political choices. the main problem with ows was that the majority of people over a certain age would dismiss it regardless of how organized it could have become.
they also didn't have any kind of connected message between the lot of them, and often (begging and end) attracted individuals whose mentalities and stations weren't "good publicity" to those that might have thought of 'joining the movement'.
also, most people are too complacent for things like what the spirit of ows was supposed to be.
I agree with some of that. Certainly Americans are trained to expect political parties (and even vague movements) to have formal spokespeople. They want/need to be TOLD whom to trust and to have any message, whatever it may be, distilled and repeated over and over. That's the only way the vast public, with its frighteningly short attention span and a lack of ability to comprehend complex sentences, gets it, so to speak. That's why the Tea Party was as successful as it was. That movement was made up of people completely at ease with deferring to authority figures (as long as they are old enough and white enough) as well as comfortable having people speak for them. And of course their messages lack complexity and are emotional rather than intellectual, so their ideas are easily communicated by today's simplistic communication systems that rely on short text and action-oriented images.
The ideas behind the Occupy Movement were far too complex to be distilled into sound bites. The lack of anointed spokespersons also made the media shy away from even attempting to understand them. So what did the media focus on? The outrageous, the vivid, the profane. Communicate a complicated complaint about the American banking system or transmit photos of dirty people in sleeping bags banging on drums? Which is the mainstream media more likely to show interest in?
The Occupy Movement had legitimate criticisms, justifiable anger, and plenty of educated people willing and able to explain its tenets. They just lacked media willing to give them a platform. Add to that the fact that the main protest was held at the home-away-from-home of the billionaire mayor of New York City. Did anyone seriously think he was going to let that protest go on for any length of time? If he would have had to bring in troops with guns to disperse those people, a la Kent State in 1970, he would have.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Natural510
Agree on the lack of structure (which the "leaders", at least in NYC, saw as a good thing) preventing it from turning into a long-term movement. If they and the Tea Party had been able to find some common ground (impossible in this day & age), it could've effected some real change. They were successful in bringing the reality of income/class disparity to the national consciousness in this country, to the point the president has made it a central cause in his second term.
I also agree with your point that the Occupy Movement WAS successful in "bringing the reality of income/class disparity to the national consciousness in this country." Absolutely. Serious conversations we're having in this country today about the minimum wage, income disparity, the problems caused by having CEOs earn a thousand times more than their workers, the unfairness of the tax structure, etc., etc., would not be taking place with nearly as much urgency had OWS not captured the imagination of many. More people are talking about things like the Libor Scandal, the failure to implement all the rules of Dodd/Frank, the many of crimes of Jamie Dimon, etc., than would be without the people who were galvanized by OWS. I even think Elizabeth Warren owes some of her success to the people who took that stand.
Quote:
Originally Posted by tjarado
Hardly anyone understood the point of it all, if it had a point.
Being anti-everything it was pro-nothing, voiced in cliches, anbiguities, slogans and meaningless rants.
Eventually most of them got bored living in filth and moved on.
So much for the revolution.
Dream on. OWS as a mob of angry people camping on the streets of New York was extinguished by a police force acting under orders from the 1%. But the movement is still quite active. One of the most important results of OWS was the formation of Occupy the SEC, a formal. serious, well-educated, and ambitious group that is doing yeoman's work in communicating the main Occupy messages to the financial power brokers in our country. You may not have heard of them, but the Wall Street Journal, Forbes, The NY Times, the Washington Post, Reuters, the Globe and Mail, The Economist, Le Monde, The Guardian, and CNBC are all well aware of their work and often support it.
I'll let them explain themselves. "Occupy the SEC works to ensure that financial regulators act in the public interest, not for Wall Street and its lobbyists. We are a group of concerned citizens, activists, and financial professionals with decades of collective experience working at many of the largest financial firms in the industry." Occupy the SEC files lawsuits, testifies about pending legislation, submits amicus briefs to courts (including the Supreme Court), and instigates investigations.
And they're not the only offshoot of the Occupy Movement. About six months ago The Nation analyzed the network of "many loosely tied, sometimes rather autonomous, groups and projects" that have evolved from Occupy Wall Street. In addition to Occupy the SEC, it includes Occupy Our Homes (action against illegal mortgage foreclosures), Occupy the Pipeline (action against big oil), Strike Debt (fighting for economic justice), Occu-Evolve (support for low-income and underpaid workers), Occupy Sandy (a grassroots relief effort in response to Hurricane Sandy that has become a permanent, active organization), and many others the mainstream media fail to tell you about.
Today's OWS is not seeking Tea Party-style publicity. But they're getting a job done that badly needs to be done. And if you choose not to understand "the point of it all," that's on you.
The problem is that too many idiots blame the person who's out of work and needs help vs. blaming the record-profit making corporation that sent his job to China or the record salary making executive who decided to send the jobs overseas. No, in the loony land of America, no matter how hard you work and how many things you do right, when you're screwed over, it is still "your fault" and "you don't deserve anything?!" It can never be the fault of corporations... heavens no... and a lifetime of work should't yield any reward.
The majority of those making decent money don't understand that they are one layoff, injury, or illness away from being unemployable, and yet the begrudge the victims vs. those who have gotten rid of the jobs and declared whole swaths of our society "unemployable." They may not be willing to "lower their standard of living" to help a fellow citizen, but it is going to happen anyway once they get culled in some future round of layoffs. Of course, by then the citizens will all hate each other and be blind to what is happening away - which is exactly what the wealthy elite want.
The current administration has had almost two complete terms to Stick it To the corporations that are so evil and record shattering in the profit department.
I am unaware of any regulation, law, ordinance, tax (except on Chinese imported tires) that was passed to fix such issue. Now, in hindsight, if the Dems in power had spent the first four years trying to mend relations with the other side, instead of the Blame Bush game and shoving healthcare down our throats, we could have maybe had some regulation.
I am all for taxing corporations, I think China should have a 700% tarrif on imported goods. But this isn't ever going to happen with a divided goverment. The division, the real rift, I truly feel the turning point was when Obama got on his stump, with a smirk on his face, and told the Repubs that he was going to pass the AHC bill whether they were on board or no, so by golly, they better get on board.
I feel that was the nail in the coffin for this administration to be able to reach across the aisle. Now, well we will have to see if anyone in the country can lead us, not corrupted by money, or business, or unions, but one that actually leads us to a solution that's good for everyone.
I read the posts and both sides are reduced to name calling and hatred. We either need to work out our differences or we are going to have another civil war.
Go to any Republican fund raiser and ask anyone there what they think of Democrats, and vice versa. It's a genuine disdain for the other side. We will never get anything accomplished ever again until the wounds heal, and true leadership steps up to tackle the issue.
The people squatting and destroying Zuccotti Park in New York were a bunch of rich trust-fund bums who had lots of time to spare, while others from modest backgrounds were busting their butts either going to school or working.
Go ahead and ignore the OWS movement at your own peril - because OWS was a warning shot across the bow.
The NEXT movement may very well turn violent, and if there must be a third one after that, I have no doubt it will organically become a revolution even if it wasn't intended to.
Obviously brainwashed by her Marxist professors.
Here is how you avoid poverty:
1) Graduate from high school.
2) Get married before you have children, and stay married.
3) Work at any kind of job, even one that starts out paying the minimum wage.
4) Avoid engaging in criminal behavior.
5) If you graduate from high school today with a B or C average, take a low-cost or financially assisted post-high-school education program available to increase your skills.
6) Avoid living in expensive cities like New York.
7) Focus on your job, your spouse, your children and your friends, and don't pay attention to people like this poster who dream about a second American Revolution and the restoration of the guillotine.
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