Map of U.S. Regions (moving, yard, land)

[murksiderock]

If I was defining the South, I still have WV and VA in. I consider the Southeast to be the Southern states east of the Mississippi. South Central to me are Texas, Oklahoma, Louisiana, and Arkansas...

I divide the West into the Pacific states, and Interior West. I think Nevada is a Pacific state as it's population centers of Reno and Vegas are very much oriented to the coast...

The Midwest I think is an eastern and western Midwest, split along the Mississippi...

And I'm okay with defining the Northeast as DC on up...

Now, there's overlap in every region. El Paso and West Texas are more Interior/Mountain West than Southern. There are shades of the South still in Maryland and Delaware. And every region can be further subdivided into subsections, like I think the Mid-Atlantic in practicality is a transition area that reaches across both the Northeast and the South. I think the Southwest is multi-region and you could call parts of Nevada, Utah, and Texas Southwest...

So there's overlap and subsections everywhere...

[btownboss4]

Interesting New England is really the only coherent region in America

[P Larsen]

'Tis long been that way and likely ever to be that way.

The clarity of it was further clarified (pun intended) in the 20th century when Suffolk County NY - the European settlement of which originally came from CT & MA - emphatically became suburbia for NYC. The LIRR was created as a tool to transport New Yorkers to Newport and Boston via a ferry between Greenport and Stonington (the ferry being a creature of Commodore Vanderbilt, who made his first bones breaking up the Livingston clans' monopoly control of the ferries in New York Harbor) and that same train system eventually led to the suburbanization of LI, first after WW1, and then on highway steroids after WW2.

[CamThomas]

Originally Posted by murksiderock

https://www.fla-shop.com/resources/u...e%20Far%20West.

Almost 1000 votes in, once you do your own you can see the results. And 1000 votes in you can see WV and VA are viewed by the consensus as turning Northeast purple-y...

The culture map to me is the most accurate

[Nemean]

The names of the five categories pretty much taint the map if you want to split the states into five groups. With those descriptors, I'd pretty much agree with that division, but more strongly agree with VA in the South, and have the same barely giving WV to the Northeast (The whole existence of the state was predicating on not being in the South, and while the ties to OH are strong, the geography is more common to a wider region of the Northeast).

If I were to split the states into five categories (with no subdividing states), though it'll look more like:

Northeast: NY PA NJ MD WV DE (DC) | MA CT NH ME RI VT

Southeast: FL GA AL | NC VA TN SC

Midwest: IL OH MI IN WI KY | MN IA NE SD ND

West: CA AZ UT NV HI | WA OR AK

South Central?: TX MO LA OK AR KS MS | CO NM ID MT WY

Granted, there's a lot finagling here to get things to somewhat balanced population numbers, with ID + MT + WY just being given to the otherwise least populated region. Otherwise, the "internal split" of the fifth (Akin to New England vs Midatlantic, Great Plains vs Great Lakes, etc) would be the watersheds of the lower Mississippi, the Red River, and the start of the Missouri vs the Rockies states.

[LINative]

Originally Posted by P Larsen

'Tis long been that way and likely ever to be that way.

The clarity of it was further clarified (pun intended) in the 20th century when Suffolk County NY - the European settlement of which originally came from CT & MA - emphatically became suburbia for NYC. The LIRR was created as a tool to transport New Yorkers to Newport and Boston via a ferry between Greenport and Stonington (the ferry being a creature of Commodore Vanderbilt, who made his first bones breaking up the Livingston clans' monopoly control of the ferries in New York Harbor) and that same train system eventually led to the suburbanization of LI, first after WW1, and then on highway steroids after WW2.

Ah, but it works both ways. Just to declarify your statement of clarity, by the 1840s about 40% of New York State population had New England roots. Even more if you count New England descendants in New York from the colonial era.

Here is something that might shock people.....

One might ask a century later, “But why a New England Society in Brooklyn?” Census records of the 1870s indicate that there were more people of New England descent living in Brooklyn, already the nation’s third largest city, than in Boston. As a major manufacturing center and with a seaport larger than New York’s, it attracted great numbers of New Englanders in the years immediately preceding and after the Civil War.

Interesting, in the 19th century Brooklyn was still a separate city and had a bigger seaport than Manhattan. I did not know that! Anyway, the point is that New Englanders were coming to not just Upstate but Downstate as well.

https://newenglandsociety.org/history-of-the-society/

And New Yorkers were flowing back eastward as well. The New York, New Haven and Hartford railroad as well as steamship lines like the Fall River Line sent as many New Yorkers eastward as the Long Island Railroad as you mentioned. Today a very large percentage of Connecticut's population, as well as smaller pops in Rhode Island, Massachusetts and Vermont are descended from New Yorkers.

[Craziaskowboi]

Originally Posted by murksiderock

https://www.fla-shop.com/resources/u...e%20Far%20West.

Almost 1000 votes in, once you do your own you can see the results. And 1000 votes in you can see WV and VA are viewed by the consensus as turning Northeast purple-y...

Here's how the survey breaks each state down by region:


Northeast

82% Connecticut
82% Maine
82% Massachusetts
82% New Hampshire
82% New York
82% Rhode Island
82% Vermont
81% New Jersey
81% Pennsylvania
75% Delaware

72% Maryland
40% West Virginia
35% Virginia
21% Ohio
14% Michigan
11% Indiana
11% Kentucky
10% North Carolina
7% Illinois
7% South Carolina

7% Wisconsin
6% Tennessee
5% Alabama
5% Florida
5% Georgia
4% Hawaii
4% Idaho
4% Minnesota
4% Mississippi
4% Montana

4% Nevada
3% Alaska
3% Arizona
3% Arkansas
3% California
3% Iowa
3% Louisiana
3% Missouri
3% New Mexico
3% North Dakota

3% Oregon
3% South Dakota
3% Texas
3% Utah
3% Washington
3% Wyoming
2% Colorado
2% Kansas
2% Nebraska
2% Oklahoma


South

80% Mississippi
79% Alabama
79% Louisiana
78% Florida
78% Georgia
75% South Carolina
72% Arkansas
71% North Carolina
71% Tennessee
65% Texas

53% Oklahoma
50% Kentucky
46% Virginia
38% West Virginia
22% New Mexico
14% Arizona
12% Maryland
9% Delaware
7% Missouri
6% Hawaii

6% Kansas
5% Illinois
5% Indiana
5% Michigan
5% Ohio
5% Wisconsin
4% Alaska
4% Iowa
4% Minnesota
3% Colorado

3% Connecticut
3% Maine
3% Massachusetts
3% Nebraska
3% New Hampshire
3% New Jersey
3% New York
3% North Dakota
3% Pennsylvania
3% Rhode Island

3% South Dakota
3% Vermont
2% California
2% Idaho
2% Montana
2% Nevada
2% Oregon
2% Utah
2% Wyoming
1% Washington


Midwest

81% Iowa
78% Missouri
76% Illinois
76% Minnesota
75% Wisconsin
71% Indiana
69% Michigan
67% Nebraska
65% Kansas
61% Ohio

60% South Dakota
58% North Dakota
25% Kentucky
19% Oklahoma
12% Arkansas
12% Colorado
12% Wyoming
9% Montana
8% Tennessee
8% West Virginia

7% Texas
7% Utah
6% New Mexico
5% Idaho
5% Louisiana
5% Nevada
4% Arizona
3% Connecticut
3% Delaware
3% Hawaii

3% Maryland
3% Massachusetts
3% Mississippi
3% New Hampshire
3% New Jersey
3% New York
3% Pennsylvania
3% Rhode Island
3% Vermont
3% Virginia

2% Alabama
2% Alaska
2% California
2% Florida
2% Georgia
2% Maine
2% North Carolina
2% Oregon
2% South Carolina
2% Washington


Frontier

66% Montana
65% Colorado
65% Wyoming
61% Utah
57% Idaho
54% New Mexico
47% Arizona
41% Nevada
28% North Dakota
27% South Dakota

20% Nebraska
19% Kansas
18% Oklahoma
16% Texas
15% Alaska
10% Hawaii
10% Minnesota
7% California
7% Wisconsin
6% Florida

6% Illinois
6% Indiana
6% Iowa
6% Kentucky
6% Michigan
6% North Carolina
6% Ohio
6% Oregon
6% South Carolina
6% Virginia

6% Washington
6% West Virginia
5% Arkansas
5% Delaware
5% Georgia
5% Maryland
5% Missouri
5% New Jersey
5% Rhode Island
5% Tennessee

4% Alabama
4% Connecticut
4% Louisiana
4% Maine
4% Massachusetts
4% Mississippi
4% New Hampshire
4% New York
4% Pennsylvania
4% Vermont


Pacific

87% Oregon
86% California
86% Washington
78% Hawaii
76% Alaska
48% Nevada
32% Arizona
31% Idaho
27% Utah
20% Montana

19% Wyoming
18% Colorado
15% New Mexico
11% North Carolina
10% Alabama
10% Florida
10% Georgia
10% South Carolina
10% Virginia
9% Delaware

9% New Jersey
9% New York
9% Pennsylvania
9% Tennessee
9% Texas
8% Arkansas
8% Connecticut
8% Kansas
8% Kentucky
8% Louisiana

8% Maine
8% Maryland
8% Massachusetts
8% Mississippi
8% New Hampshire
8% Oklahoma
8% Rhode Island
8% Vermont
8% West Virginia
7% Iowa

7% Missouri
7% Nebraska
7% North Dakota
7% South Dakota
7% Wisconsin
6% Illinois
6% Indiana
6% Michigan
6% Minnesota
6% Ohio

[Nemean]

So more people think Alabama could be part of the Pacific than Missouri could be in the South. Also Iowa and Mississippi being the only non-Pacific, non-Northeast states in 80+ range is surprising.

Faith in humanity destroyed. :P

That said, if assuming 6% of people just made everything red to see the results, that still leaves 4% for Pacific Alabama.

[P Larsen]

LINative

As the son of Nutmeggers who moved to LI after right after WW2, I might be an example of what you describe. But...my family were most definitely cultural outliers in the Boom era and following decades. We were swamped by cultural New Yorkers (from The City), and the cultural legacy of New England Yankee culture was of a ever-receding residue of the past.

As for Brooklyn: a famous example of which you describe in pop culture would be Arsenic & Old Lace, with the Brewster family obviously intended to be of English and perhaps New English-to-Brooklyn origin. The overlay of Dutch and New English in Kings & Queens Counties (the latter including what is now Nassau - oddly claiming the Dutch identity heritage) used to be strong. It was swamped in the 20th century.

One might liken it to glaciers and terminal moraine, but here reversing the process, with NYC being an expanding glacier covering over the former cultural terminal moraine of New England.

[Toxic Toast]

Originally Posted by Nemean

So more people think Alabama could be part of the Pacific than Missouri could be in the South. Also Iowa and Mississippi being the only non-Pacific, non-Northeast states in 80+ range is surprising.

Faith in humanity destroyed. :P

That said, if assuming 6% of people just made everything red to see the results, that still leaves 4% for Pacific Alabama.

Pacific takes a higher share of states across the board. SC, FL, and NC each at 10%, TN at 9%. Pacific was either the second ranked or tied for the second ranked choice for each state. Even NY, IA, and MI you see the same type of thing. I have two theories on this:

1) Pacific is the default option when you get to the website. If you just click around on the map, and don't pay attention to what the choices represent, you're voting Pacific unknowingly.

2) People forgot Mexico is to the south and don't realize the Gulf of Mexico is the Atlantic rather than the Pacific.