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Since Buffalo and Pittsburgh were settled before the Midwest wouldn't it be more accurate to ask if Chicago, St. Louis, etc. are more Eastern/North Eastern than Midwestern?
^^This!
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Originally Posted by ckhthankgod
What about Basketball, which is big in NY State, eastern PA and the major metros in the Northeast?
Basketball is also big in smaller districts throughout PA, especially in the Catholic schools (for some reason).
Mid-western IMO the Northeast is The Eastern tip of Lake Ontario, south to the Wyoming Valley of PA. After that Hockey is no longer the flagship sport of colleges (football is) the industry was steel/metal thing, to the east it was textiles/paper.
And yet, you know what industry Pennsylvania has never been a major player in? Cars. That's the signature industry of the Midwest, starting in Lordstown, OH. Cleveland produced some steel, but its true calling card was automotive components, mechanisms and accessories. A great many of them were invented there. Conversely, Pittsburgh provided the paint and glass for cars, but its true calling card was steel, aluminum and other metals.
Quote:
Originally Posted by North Beach Person
Since Buffalo and Pittsburgh were settled before the Midwest wouldn't it be more accurate to ask if Chicago, St. Louis, etc. are more Eastern/North Eastern than Midwestern?
When comparing Pennsylvania with Ohio in another topic on this site, I illustrated how all parts of Pennsylvania (except possibly Erie) had been extensively settled before 1800, while Ohio wasn't extensively settled until after 1800. This is another reason why I consider the boundary between the Northeast and Midwest to be a soft boundary somewhere between Pittsburgh and Cleveland.
Pittsburgh and Buffalo are in the interior northeast which is culturally different from the coastal northeast (Philly, NJ , NYC, Connecticut, Boston) because of the similarities with the Midwest. So yes they are northeastern but not coastal northeastern.
I'd say Northeastern, but they still don't feel all that different from cities like Cleveland, St. Louis, or Milwaukee.
If we're judging commonality with Midwestern cities, I'd argue that Pittsburgh has more in common with Cincinnati and St. Louis than it does with Cleveland and Milwaukee. A lot of people don't pay enough attention to the east/west-oriented development and cultural patterns between the Atlantic Ocean and the Mississippi River. Great Lakes culture traces its roots to New England, whereas Lower Midwestern culture traces its roots to the Mid-Atlantic.
Boston -> Providence -> Hartford -> Rochester -> Buffalo -> Cleveland -> Detroit -> Chicago -> Milwaukee
Philadelphia -> Baltimore -> Washington DC -> Pittsburgh -> Columbus -> Cincinnati -> Indianapolis -> St. Louis
In terms of the extra-large cities, Cleveland has more commonality with Boston and Chicago, whereas Pittsburgh has more commonality with Philadelphia and Washington DC. New York is a blend of both patterns of culture and development. North of I-80 and Suffolk County on Long Island are more like New England, whereas south of I-80 and Nassau County on Long Island are more Mid-Atlantic.
More accurately, using your metric, the Mid West is philosophically like Pittsburgh as it predates most Mid Western cities.
This whole subject is goofy.
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