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So youre saying Albany for example is more related to Ohio than NYC? or Ohio and NYC? I dont get it. Youd be saying its not associated with NYC but it is.
If it was a typo and you meant just Ohio, then in what manner?
Im not saying Albany is a mass metropolis like NYC here, but its directly influenced by it and very related to it, as well as New England.
Where people come up with this ****, I dont know. Upstate NY might as well be the Sahara Desert I guess in terms of civilization, even though its 7+ million people, which would still make it about the 13th most populous state out of 50.
I guess since NYC is a prime example of a large cosmopolitan city, they equate Upstate NY to something desolate like Montana or something. Its about as desolate as South Jersey in some parts. They view the dichotomy between NYC and the rest of the state as extremes.
What is funny to me here is that you always hear about Jersey Girls or California Girls, or state pride like Jersey or California, but when it comes to New York, its all strictly city. There is apparently no state pride either. Ill counter any reply about New York being a diverse state with so are NJ and CA.
Actually he isn't the first person today this. I've heard a person from buffalo even say that it's more connected to Ohio then NYC.
Actually he isn't the first person today this. I've heard a person from buffalo even say that it's more connected to Ohio then NYC.
I can see someone from Buffalo noting their cultural connections to Ohio but I would argue the economic and political connections to NYC thru Albany are still stronger. But in any case, the person you were quoting from was himself quoting someone else who said "Upstate new york may be similar to pennslybvania but it more closely related to ohio and nyc in my opnion".
Upstate NY is more closely related to Ohio than Pennsylvania? I do not agree with this all. Having said that, all 3 states do have similarities, much more than people realize. But I still think most of Upstate of NY is more similiar to Pennsylvania.
I can see someone from Buffalo noting their cultural connections to Ohio but I would argue the economic and political connections to NYC thru Albany are still stronger. But in any case, the person you were quoting from was himself quoting someone else who said "Upstate new york may be similar to pennslybvania but it more closely related to ohio and nyc in my opnion".
Upstate NY is more closely related to Ohio than Pennsylvania? I do not agree with this all. Having said that, all 3 states do have similarities, much more than people realize. But I still think most of Upstate of NY is more similiar to Pennsylvania.
Its fine that you think "upstate" is a different world. But you cannot tell me that new haven has a nyc vibe, or hartford - because they do not. Again, just because wikipedia puts it in nyc metro does not mean its nyc, or "like" nyc. hell, where I grew up on long island feels more like maine than new york. The whole metro region idea is flawed to begin with.
You also cannot tell me there is any discernible difference between syracuse and trenton. I have lived in both and the two are almost identical.
To stick to the op - nyc/jersey is the correct answer. I would exclude conn from this poll as less than a quarter of the state can be associated with ny. central to eastern conn is definately more new england than nyc.
But still, as I said before, all of these areas are just different shades of the same color. I think everyone can agree on that.
I'm from CT and while I don't deal with Hartford, I am from New Haven and I now live in Danbury. If you mean by "NY vibe" a lot of people, then the only city on the east that does to me is DC, and that is because of the congestion!
New Haven is right across from LI and the only thing keeping us apart is the lack of a bridge or tunnel. Hartford is never put in an NYC region because it is not and is considered it's own market which they also foolishly call a CT market. Hartford is more Boston/New England oriented since it is closer to MA, but it is not in metro Boston.
New Haven is most certainly aligned with NYC (at least the people on the ground) and Bridgeport kind of has an NYC feel (rough looking that is) and of course Stamford does as well. Now, I have traveled all over the state and the northeast for that matter, and while northern CT seems to want to align themselves more with Boston (and try to force it on the whole state), they are not in Boston's metro region. Eastern CT to my surprise, is aligned with NYC and they sell NYC papers and NYC sports team gear! I supposed it's because parts of LI are almost touching them.
I think that any perception about CT is because we don't get daily coverage on the NY news so people get the impression that we are not fully in. If NY news reported on Bridgeport and New Haven crime the way they do Newark and Jersey City - people would view CT in a very different way.
People... "Upstate" is anything that is not "Downstate." Where the line between them is, is a big debate. But the idea that Buffalo is not "Upstate" is just crazy. Buffalo, Rochester, Syracuse, Albany, the Adirondacks... it's ALL Upstate.
Buffalonians like to put on airs by pretending that "Western NY" and "Upstate" are two different things, which I really don't get. Western New York is a subregion of Upstate New York. Pretty simple.
Now, I agree that Western New York is (heh) "different" but that's mainly because of the way they call soda "pop" and their silly habit of putting "the" in front of highway route numbers. ("Take the 90...")
From my experience, it appears that anyone considers upstate anything north of the Bronx all the way to Canada going north following the Rockland, Orange and Westchester County geography. Once you go west, you get into a different area. I know that people in Westchester and Rockland hate being called upstate NY because it makes it seem as if they are in a different region from NYC. It is just the way I hate having CT called New England because it assumes that we must be down with Boston when Boston is 3+ hours from us.
I know that I am new here and late to the game, but let me make it all very clear with the final answer.
Of course NYC is associated with NJ & CT more than upstate NY. Dutchess County is usually the cutoff extreme, while Putnam is the casual limit. Past Dutchess County, you are dealing with another region and another world. I recall seeing an Albany website and the mayor was wearing a Red Sox hate and it appeared as if the Boston teams were seen as their teams! I know that people in far upstate NY hate that NYC get's so much attention that they are forgotten about. It is what it is.
NJ: NJ is obviously in metro NYC and if Philly were not on the lower, opposite side - NYC would claim the whole state! There is never a question about NJ being metro NY. Hell, looking at NYC news, you would think that NJ was the priority and an extension of NY more so than Long Island or the northern suburbs!
Northern NJ is clearly NYC oriented in every way while South Jersey is clearly Philly to DC oriented in every in looks (row houses) and culture. They are all-in with Philly and do not like people mistaking them for being in the NYC area just because they are from NJ. South Jersey to DC does not look like North Jersey on up. These are very different looks that hit you as soon as you get there.
CT: Fairfield County is the unquestionable NYC territory because it is the only county in CT who's local media is NYC's media only! New Haven County would be the same if New Haven did not have an ABC affiliate which made it associated with a so-called Hartford/New Haven market. However, the Metro-North terminates in New Haven and Waterbury so of course that puts New Haven County in metro NYC. New Haven can also pick up NYC media (TV/radio) off-air, so that settles that.
Litchfield County is regarded as a county that should be metro NYC because of it's location - but is is also next to Hartford County where Hartford seems to view itself as some major city when all that it is is the capital of CT and it is not even THE city people want to be in CT - New Haven is that city. People in NJ don't see Trenton as the focal point of NJ. People in NY certainly don't view Albany as the focal point of NY, so it is weird that Hartford does for itself. Hartford is not even CT's largest city, those are in metro NYC for obvious reasons.
Now CT, unlike NJ but also like NJ, is being pulled apart be two different cities. One is NYC which of course CT is IN metro NYC and the other is Boston which NO PART of CT is in a Boston metro region! Most people agree and accept NJ being in metro NYC and in metro Philly without anything left for NJ having it's own identity. Unlike NYC, the small and very far away city of Boston wants to claim ALL of CT by continuing a "New England" marketing.
People use the term "New England" a lot and when asked to define it, all people can say is that it is six state - nothing more. Well i'll define what it is not. NE is not a state, not a TV market, not a metro area, not a government body - it's nothing more than an old colonial term that has no meaning at all! If anything, it is a nickname for Boston and MA. Boston NEEDS CT in order to get a NY association of which they (like Philly) have a love/hate relationship with NYC. They hate that NYC get's all of the attention, yet they love the attention that they get from NYC sports team battles.
People in Boston and Hartford do not seem to respect or want to recognize CT as having different regions. They seem to want to think that CT is a city that revolves around Hartford when if you live in southern CT, Hartford is never on ours minds! The facts about CT are these: No ONE inch of CT is in metro Boston, so you can never say that CT is between NYC and Boston, that is a lie. NJ is between NYC and Philly however. CT is ONLY in metro NYC and CT's own market/metro region - no Boston or MA. Boston's metro region commonly includes states known as New England, not CT. We don't even sound like them nor do we revolve around Boston. NYC is like 10 minutes from here.
So, in ALL of CT, the only sports teams that should be official for us are the NY/NJ teams - Boston teams are literally out-of-market teams to ALL of CT. We are not like NJ where there is a split. Boston has zero influence on any of CT and if it were not for NYC, CT would not be one of the richest states in the country along with NJ. In fact, the three richest states are MD,NJ and CT. They change positions, but they are both in the metro areas of the two most important cities in the country, that's why. The poorest and least populous county in CT is Windham County and it also just happens to be the closet to Boston too. There you have it.
I am ranting yes, but I hate when Boston corporations (Dunkin Donuts, formerly Stop&Shop, Marshalls, TJ Maxx, Hood, now People's Bank etc.) falsely Trojan Horse Boston and it's teams into CT via Boston businesses. For example, Dunkin Donuts will have sports tie-ins and in Farifield County, they of course tie-in with the NY teams. Right over the border in Milford they put the New England Patriots poster in the window. I asked them why and they said that they treat that market like Boston. I told them it is not the Boston market and your teams are not OUR teams. No one on the ground routes for Boston teams in New Haven County, unless it is because they would route for a winning team, which those people are not really into sports.
I am sorry for going on, but I hate that a far away city like Boston keeps trying to do in CT. I could see if we were in their metro region, but we are not in any way. I could also see if they were just over the border, but they are not. We have zero in common with them and going to Boston is like planning a trip and reserving 6 hours of drive time.
On a side, note, MA has been begging CT for what they call a "high-speed" "commuter" railroad from Springfield, MA to New Haven. The claim is that it will allow travel and economic improvement to both areas. This is another Trojan Horse to get into metro NYC. No one from New Haven travels to Hartford or MA, but they all like to come down to New Haven because we have beaches and we are on the Metro-North line. Once built, it will only flood the Metro-North for REAL commuters who depend upon it for work, not just to tour NYC! If you think that people from the north want to go into dangerous New Haven for leisure, then you are crazy.
Lastly, upstate NY is another world. I remember I stopped in Saratoga Springs and I felt like I was in some hillbilly state! The people even let it be known that they were country! Now, I go to Putnam County a lot and it is desolate, but nice if you like woods and homes and roads and lakes! When I was in New Haven, I never had a need to go to Putnam as I only when to Westchester (because I have to in order to get into the city) and I Rockland because I know someone there. Putnam is boring, but if you like that kind of living, it is OK. Westchester and Putnam - hell - upstate NY looks like CT anyway!
The woman I know in Rockland (Nyack) swears that NYack is the center of the world and that NYS looks looks different from CT. Too bad she was not joking. There was no difference at all. As an old college professor used to say - "you are what you think you are." There is not such place as New England and NYC really kind of operates as a state within a state with special privileges and that other cities in states don't have. That does make it unique.
Westchester DOES count. At least I think it does. Again, I don't consider Westchester to be upstate. It's so far south. And CT really shouldn't count. There's only, what, 3 counties in CT that's part of the metro area? That people actually commute from daily? NJ has like 8 counties that people commute to work in the city from daily. NYC's right across the river. NJ co-owns (if you will) the Statue of Liberty and Ellis Island. We own (again, 'own' for lack of better term. Control?) half the Hudson River and the New York Bay. We associate so much with NYC and vice versa.
Lol! "CT should not really count." Some love ot hate on CT because they cannot relate to the wealth that is here and the fancy lifestyle that many live(I am not one of them, but I see it!). It's alright. CT counties are larger in area than NJ counties, so that is one reason why there are more. Stop the hate, no one disputes NJ being metro NYC at all. Hell, NYC news talks more about NJ than even NYC! Hell, Staten Island seems to be the least talked about place in the Tri-state area.
This debate just depends on what your definition of upstate is. To people in the metro area, it's outside of the metro area. To you, it includes the metro area counties of NY. But still, you can't argue that NJ is most closely related to NYC, out of the three choices. CT barely counts, IMHO. And the counties above the Bronx just don't have the proximity that Jersey does overall. I mean, New Jersey sits right across from all of Manhattan, what faces the Hudson of Brooklyn, and Staten Island. No one else can beat that. And for that reason, the two are most associated. Getting to and from Manhattan and anywhere else from NE NJ is just so so easy. Ferry, train, PATH, bus, car. Four different bridges from NJ (in Bergen, Hudson, Union, and Middlesex counties) access NYC, two tunnels. Multiple ferry ports (again, from Bergen/Hudson, and apparently soon to be Union, to Middlesex). CT and other NY counties can't boast the same
New York's influence is shown almost everywhere in NJ. I don't think the same could be said about other NY cities. Again, they have their own identities. Their own metro areas. NJ's identities really fall within whether you live closer to NYC or Philly. Sports teams. Which city you go to the most. Someone from far upstate wouldn't go to NYC every weekend. It would be too much. It's a pain to get to even from NJ sometimes because it's all a fricken island!
I hear you as far as view goes, but Westchester borders NYC and CT borders Westchester. It is actually easier for us to go into the city (toll free too!) than it is for NJ and all points west to. I like living close ot NYC, but I also like living far enough away that criminals won't think about us first.
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New York City Tri-state Area
