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A German going to Amsterdam for the weekend is the same thing as someone from Iowa going to Chicago for the weekend.
An Irishman going to a sunny beach in Spain for a winter get-away is the same as someone from Illinois going to Florida.
And if you want to talk about different cultures, try going from New Orleans to Boston to L.A. to Miami. They're more different from each other than Berlin is from Amsterdam.
OK to hold these views, of course. I disagree, however, and Rob702 basically outlined my reasons (+1). Just wondering: Have you been to Amsterdam, Ireland, Spain, and Berlin?
As for this:
Quote:
Originally Posted by tfox
Other than western Europe, it often takes about 24+ solid hours of traveling on planes to get anywhere in the eastern hemisphere. On top of that, one has to cope with 8-12 hours of jet lag, which can often take as many days to recover from.
Of course, travel in our hemisphere doesn't have that problem, but violence in Mexico has all but closed off travel to the border regions in that country or trips by car headed south.
Parts of Mexico (mostly near the border) are dangerous and even wealthy Mexicans do not travel there. Of course our hemisphere is much more than Mexico. In addition to inland Mexico, I have traveled to Guatemala, Costa Rica, Ecuador, Argentina, Uruguay and Chile. Not only are they relatively close and one does not have to contend with jet-lag, they are actually less expensive destinations than most places I visit in the US and Canada. For example, I could spend a week in Buenos Aires for what it costs to spend a weekend in NYC. We are returning to Ecuador in spring, 2013.
I'm an American and I made time to see over 40 countries on five continents. If you'll actually read the posts instead of reacting to them, you'll see I am not alone. It's fine if it's not your priority, but don't cop out and say it's because you're an American. Instead, let's look at the heart of your post which I think reveals the true reasons:
If you're afraid of water, foreign currency, language differences, "strange lands," "cheap places," passports or not knowing the "rules" - own it. These are your words, so don't hide behind some nonsense about seeing the Sphinx in Vegas.
Oh, now I get it. You're one of those "If I can do it, so can you a-holes."
Right, because EVERYBODY has the same job, with the same salary, and vacation time, right? You don't know everybody's background here, so please stop it. You don't know what people's salaries are, whether their families traveled a lot, etc. . .
And stop it with the "prioritizing" thing. I'm from the "Rust Belt", just look at my screen name. I don't know ONE person who lives in a "McMansion", drives a new car, or goes on spectacular vacations to Disneyworld every year. Most people I know drive 10 year old cars and are struggling with $4 gas
We are struggling to keep our jobs and survive here. Travel is not a necessity, therefore it goes after health insurance, car insurance, rainy day fund, and tuition to keep kids in a decent school, because most of our schools suck.
And don't tell me what I'm "scared of".
I would LOVE to go to Europe, if I had 4 or 5 weeks at ANYTIME and a few thousand dollars to lay and play around, but if I have a WEEK or less, I'm not going to spend a bunch of money to be traveling for 2 days, with only a few days to learn the language, culture, etc. . .and stay in a place that's either expensive and nice or crappy and cheap.
And if it's pure arrogance at the highest to **** on Las Vegas, Hollywood, New York, etc.. . .(if you are an American), when the rest of the WORLD comes here to marvel at our stuff.
"Yeah, those things suck, compared to Europe", right? Well, why are there so many Europeans coming here to see those things?
Don't be that a-hole American that goes out of his way to diss our country so you seem cool to your little friends in the rest of the world, it's pathetic.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Deezus
Somebody is going to those places though, because when I look at domestic travel destinations and search for hotel rooms for possible trips, many places are often fully booked up... People are saying that in this economy nobody goes out any more, but it seems like while it maybe numbers have declined, whenever I go on a trip domestically or to a show or sporting event there's still a ton of people out and about.
People come from all over the world to go to Disneyworld, and a lot of people live NEAR Disneyworld, and how do you know how many people have spent years saving up for just that one trip because that's the ONLY trip they'll be taking for a long time?
You just don't know, do you?
Think before you judge
Quote:
Originally Posted by Deezus
It's not luck, it's hard work and proper financial planning and knowing how to live within my means that allows me to enjoy the things I want to enjoy. I could have bought an overpriced piece of real estate at the height of the bubble or spent money on a new car or truck and would still be paying off mortgages and car loans. I chose to live modestly and decided I'd rather spend my money on the occasional trip and get into a career path that allowed me the opportunities to occasionally travel.
Of course there's a huge financial divide in this country, but on the other hand there's people with the means to travel who could if they really wanted--it's just not high on their list of priorities. It's not that difficult as I have friends who make less than I do who still take vacations internationally. It's just a choice, that's all. A higher percentage of Western Europeans, Canadians, Australians, Japanese and Israelis tend to make the choice to travel to far off locations. To many Americans it's just not something they want to do--and that's their choice in life. I know people who say they could never afford to take a trip to a foreign country who bought a $25,000 truck--that's their choice, so "God bless free will". People are free to choose what they want to spend on, and I could care less if they don't want to travel.
I don't know anybody with a $25,000 truck. I don't know too many people that own overpriced property. Maybe that's you where you're from, in this country. Most people I know work lower class, lower wage manufacturing and factory jobs without health insurance and old beat up cars, if they're lucky. Even college graduates can't find a job. If you've read a newspaper the last few months, you'd see that 50% of the American population is slipping towards poverty with all-time highs in people without jobs, people on welfare, and people receiving government benefits. I wonder how those people are supposed to go to Hong Kong on a whim.
And it's good that you know people who do have a choice. It's not that many of us, if you'd pick up a newspaper once again you'd know that.
And to once again compare Americans with people in countries with universal health care and mandatory vacation times is ABSURD.
Of course if people have a month or 2 months mandatory vacation and don't have to worry about $100,000 medical bills they'd travel more. Well, duh!
Quote:
Originally Posted by jm02
This. I have always had the travel bug and after my first trip to Europe, was bitten. From that point on, I set up a budget where I allocated a certain percentage of my income to travel. Sometimes that meant I did not have the fancy dinner, buy the new coat, or own the car of my dreams. It does mean that I have traveled to early 40 countries and am planning to visit a new one for two weeks in May.
In no way am I implying that every person can afford to travel the world. For those subsisting on low wages or deeply in debt, travel would be illogical and a poor choice of how to spend funds. For most people of modest means, however, travel is simply a matter of priority. And for those who claim it is much cheaper to travel to places like Vegas or Orlando than overseas - your money will go twice as far in countries like Costa Rica or Argentina. And guess what - no jet lag!
I am certainly glad my parents were not like many posters I read here. They were working class. While I did not lack for material things as a child, nor I was indulged with every want as an entitlement. That said, my parents believed firmly in taking time as a family to travel. Because of that, by the time I graduated from high school, they had taken me to 35 states and Canada. My father even took time off from work for a four week cross-country driving trip when I was 13. We did not stay in Sheratons or eat at high end restaurants. We did, however, create many memories - more than if they instead used those funds to provide me with a cable-ready wide-screen in my bedroom or a car on my 16th birthday. I'm convinced my parent's investment in this part of my education has instilled me with a cultural curiosity. Unlike some xenophobic posters who are "afraid" of different currencies, foods, languages, and the cultural "rules" that exist across the globe, I am endlessly fascinated with them to this day.
Who are these "regular" people with wide-screens in their bedrooms?
Who are you listening to, Fox News?
And how many fantastic trips are you going on with an average of a week or 2 a year in vacation time?
You're not thinking about people who have tight schedules here. With kids schooling, 50 hour work weeks, etc. . . .
Quote:
Originally Posted by jm02
While this is true, the same can be said for other parts of the world. Here, watch what I do:
Europe is so big and culturally and geographically diverse that one could spend an entire lifetime traveling around the continent and still not see it all.
It has has big cities like London, Paris and Rome, as well as medieval ones such as Tallinn and Carcassonne, tropical islands like Ibiza, glaciers above the Arctic Circle, vineyards overlooking the Mediterranean, the Alps, Greek and Roman ruins dating back millennia, topography ranging from the Sottish highlands to the lush Danube river valley, plus tons of other unique places. It's what makes this such a great region.
If one wants to limit themselves to just what's in this country, they will certainly see a lot. They will miss a lot, as well.
Agree, and I bet a lot of Europeans don't leave the European/Asian continent all that much either.
I'm sure the set of people you run with are so "international", but I guarantee you the middle class to lower middle class people aren't going to 80 countries every year.
They probably do what we do, which is go to the countries nearest to them. Guess what? Plenty of Americans go to Canada, Puerto Rico, Mexico, Jamaica, and the Bahamas. Tons do, just ask the locals there.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rob702
It is still only 30% though, a low percentage compared to many other countries..
Not really. The distance might fit, but the experience is totally different because a German going to Amsterdam will be exposed to a different language, culture, architecture.. the only thing an Iowan is going experience when going to Chicago is a long drive and some big city live. Period. Not saying this is a bad thing, but it is definitely not the same thing as going from Munich to Amsterdam.
Sure they are. You base that on what exactly? I agree that New Orleans, Boston, L.A., and Miami are different from each other, but so are Madrid, Berlin, Rome, Paris, London, Dublin, Prague, Amsterdam, and Stockholm. Since all of those cities are in different countries with distinct cultures and languages I might be tempted to speculate that they are more different from each other than those American cities.
So, what?
100 million isn't enough for you?
Really?
The rest of us are lucky to get a day of a month. Please
Nobody said that those countries aren't different from each other, but you have to admit that it's easier to see all of them when they're on the SAME CONTINENT. Guess what if Paris was 2 hours from me, I would've probably gone there when I was a kid, and so would most Americans. If Amsterdam was 4 hours from me, probably would have seen it too. Who knew?
I agree with the MOST of the American posters here. Work too much, too little pay, too little time, America has lots of great stuff that most of us have never seen also. More economic and a safer bet to go with what you know with those circumstances, but for all of you without that many responsibilities and with great and flexible schedules, knock yourselves out!
O
People come from all over the world to go to Disneyworld, and a lot of people live NEAR Disneyworld, and how do you know how many people have spent years saving up for just that one trip because that's the ONLY trip they'll be taking for a long time?
You just don't know, do you?
Think before you judge
Who the hell am I judging? I simply said that despite the bad economy, there's still people in this country with the means to spend on vacations as indicated by the fact that while tourist traffic is down, I still find plenty of crowds at domestic travel destinations. Not all of them are rich(and not all of them are from foreign countries) for example, people I know in fairly blue collar/middle class jobs still take their families on vacations. I never said they should take their families to a foreign country instead--I'm saying that I personally would rather travel internationally on occasion and can do so for a similar cost. As far as people saving up for trips, I'm sure many do, just as I've done in my life.
Quote:
I don't know anybody with a $25,000 truck. I don't know too many people that own overpriced property. Maybe that's you where you're from, in this country. Most people I know work lower class, lower wage manufacturing and factory jobs without health insurance and old beat up cars, if they're lucky. Even college graduates can't find a job. If you've read a newspaper the last few months, you'd see that 50% of the American population is slipping towards poverty with all-time highs in people without jobs, people on welfare, and people receiving government benefits. I wonder how those people are supposed to go to Hong Kong on a whim.
And it's good that you know people who do have a choice. It's not that many of us, if you'd pick up a newspaper once again you'd know that.
And to once again compare Americans with people in countries with universal health care and mandatory vacation times is ABSURD.
Of course if people have a month or 2 months mandatory vacation and don't have to worry about $100,000 medical bills they'd travel more. Well, duh!
Well if anything this thread is better than the usual CityData threads where a bunch of Republicans show up claiming to be self-made multi-millionaires who've succeeded without help from anyone ever. Yes, we are all well aware of the realities of the economy right now.. I've got plenty of family members out of work. I'm not rich, I barely make over 55,000 a year. All I've been saying--and I'm not sure why this is so upsetting to some people--is that if you so desire, it's not that difficult for some of us to travel internationally on a budget given you have time off from work. That's it.
I understand that the economy is rough right now. Even when the economy was better however, Americans still traveled less than other nationalities. I've been in places in Latin America(prior to the recession) where I'd meet plenty of Canadians, Australians, and Europeans who would wonder why Americans--with so much wealth and so close by--weren't there in droves. It's simply a different culture and attitude here. And honestly I don't care about how Americans spend their money or if they have no desire to travel. I understand, it's just not something a lot of people want to do or not everyone has the means to do so. But don't try to make me look like an a**hole, because I choose to travel with a portion of my disposable income. I'm not insulting anyone on here, unlike your bitter posts. I don't feel guilty because I choose a profession I can fairly easily find work in and can find a employer who provides vacation time... Stop trying to turn this into some class-warfare thread.
The number of European tourists in the Americas is also fairly high. There are entire resorts in the Dominican Republic that cater to Germans, and even in countries like Guatemala that are just a short hop by plane from major American cities like Houston, you are just as likely to encounter Europeans on the tourist trail as other Americans.
This is even more pronounced down in Chile and Argentina, even though Santiago or Buenos Aires to Paris or Frankfurt is a lengthy flight.
Americans have less vacation time and are too saddled with debt to be able to travel. Theyre too busy paying their credit cards, cars, houses, gym memberships they dont use, medical bills, and student loans off.
Foreigners dont have nearly as much debt. Their buying power is also better in America so theyre the ones traveling.
When I encounter histrionics on CD, I typically tune out. There are just a few gems I'll pick up and comment on before saying farewell:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lake County IN
And stop it with the "prioritizing" thing.
Life is about choices. You've made yours. I've made mine. There are consequences. It's not my problem that they way you've elected to lead your life and allocate resources precludes you from feeling you can travel extensively. Nor is this anyone else's problem. Deal with it and move on.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lake County IN
And don't tell me what I'm "scared of".
I don't have to. Take a gander:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lake County IN
At least if I go to Las Vegas, I'm in my country where I speak the language, and so does just about everybody else . . .
. . . without worries about conversion rates and different laws and stuff like that.
. . . cheap places that suck and I may not be able to drink the water, I have to worry about conversion rates, different rules, laws, languages, etc. . . .
If I go to Walt-Disney world, I'm in my country, it usually takes less than a half a day to get there and back, speak the language, I know the rules, I can actually enjoy myself and my family without being afraid of getting stuck in some strange land or passports, etc. . .
If you are not familiar with the quote "Methinks thou doth protest too much," google it.
Finally, about your excessive "name-calling": When a poster resorts to name-caliing, it is at that point where I typically elect to disengage, as the poster is showing they have little if any to say of further substance or interest. Of course, please feel free to continue with further tirades. Although I am through with your nonsense, perhaps others will engage with you.
Bye
Last edited by Pine to Vine; 03-08-2012 at 10:39 AM..
OK to hold these views, of course. I disagree, however, and Rob702 basically outlined my reasons (+1). Just wondering: Have you been to Amsterdam, Ireland, Spain, and Berlin?
I've traveled quite a bit in western Europe.
My point was it takes about the same amount of effort for a German to go to Amsterdam as it does an Iowan to go to Chicago.
If a person from Miami travels to California and drives up the coast, going from desert to the Redwood forest, do they have less of a travelers spirit because they didn't cross any borders?
30% of Americans hold a passport. But so what? What does that fact have anything to do with Americans love of travel and taking road trips?
And I stand by my statement going from New Orleans to Maine is more of a culture shock than going from Berlin to Amsterdam.
I wanted to "see the world" so I joined the Air Force and lived in Germany for three years. I traveled to many other countries just for work at that time, plus it was easy to get away for three day weekends to places like Rome, Paris, London, even Morocco. I really wanted to experience other cultures and foreign countries, so that's how I did it. Today, I don't leave the country (haven't in the last decade) and my passport is expired. I do plan on foreign travel when my kids get a little older (too young to appreciate it and I'd have to strangle them on an 11 hr. flight to Europe lol!) and I want then to understand/experience other cultures and countries. So we plan on foreign travel in the future. But like others have said, we don't get enough vacation here. It's hard to take one week off and go to Europe. You'd only have 5 actual days there and then you get home, all jet-lagged, and have to return to work. Outside of returning to Europe, I want to travel to Australia, Japan, and somewhere in South America - probably Ecuador and Argentina. Outside of travel to South America, the other destinations really require two weeks off work to enjoy the trip.
But I do know many people (my own family included) who have never left the U.S. and seem to have no desire to do so. They tend to think this is the center of the universe lol!
Life is about choices. You've made yours. I've made mine. There are consequences. It's not my problem that they way you've elected to lead your life and allocate resources precludes you from feeling you can travel extensively. Nor is this anyone else's problem. Deal with it and move on.
For some people it's a choice. I've known plenty of people who were more interested in nicer houses, more expensive cars, and the latest electronic gadgets than travelling outside the country. But for a lot of people it's not a matter of priorities, it's a matter of the money and time simply not being there. You can be the most practical person in the world in regards to owning "stuff", but if you still only make enough to barely scrape by, no amount of frugality will help you make that trip to Europe that you want so badly. Another poster mentioned managing to take trips despite only making $55,000 per year. To a lot of people, $55,000 is practically rich. In fact, a lot of people I know are lucky to make half that much, many others not even a third.
Americans have less vacation time and are too saddled with debt to be able to travel. Theyre too busy paying their credit cards, cars, houses, gym memberships they dont use, medical bills, and student loans off.
Foreigners dont have nearly as much debt. Their buying power is also better in America so theyre the ones traveling.
Exactly, Americans are over-extended and our buying power is still mired in the mid-1990s due to little salary increase and increased cost of living (for those currently working).
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You base that on what exactly? I agree that New Orleans, Boston, L.A., and Miami are different from each other, but so are Madrid, Berlin, Rome, Paris, London, Dublin, Prague, Amsterdam, and Stockholm. Since all of those cities are in different countries with distinct cultures and languages I might be tempted to speculate that they are more different from each other than those American cities.
