Similarities and differences between NY and PA (neighborhood, universities)

[CookieSkoon]

Originally Posted by ki0eh

I would have to say that central PA is more conservative by a noticeable margin than central NY which is more of a "purple" area. The western southern tier of NY away from the colleges is probably just as conservative as adjacent northern tier PA but I'd say the northern tier of PA is still not as conservative as west-south-central PA.

I think that's because there are more urban towns in NY. That does tend to breed liberal.

The exception being Elmira. That city just feels so... country. Despite it's high population.

[CookieSkoon]

Originally Posted by ki0eh

I've had quite a lot of business activities in rural areas in both NY and PA. Both states have a number of regional divisions in culture, economy, and outlook. Central/western NY has certainly a greater chasm in outlook compared to the NYC metro, than rural PA has even to Philadelphia.

There certainly are a few differences between NY and PA that go right up to the border. PA property tax burdens are considerably less so I think more of the old original families have been able to hang onto their land in PA vs. in NY. The socially and fiscally conservative people in PA are not necessarily any less so immediately over the NY border but they have a greater voice in PA state politics than in NY state politics.

Tell me about it. Many conservatives in upstate NY get completely drowned out by millions of liberal urban New Yorkers. NYC alone holds an unfair political majority power over the state.

Most of my family votes republican. But they don't have much of a voice under that enormous downstate shadow.

Originally Posted by ki0eh

Land use regulation has evolved somewhat differently in the last 30 years in the two states, the current state of Marcellus Shale gas development is an extreme example. However one sees a number of base facilities of the gas companies and gas service companies moving in close to the I-86 corridor even on the higher taxed NY side so obviously they see this situation as a temporary hiccup.

Actually, and this is an honest question, what is the difference in the way the two states are approaching it? As far I knew this was a rapidly developing problem on both sides for residents.

[CookieSkoon]

Originally Posted by cincur63

Wow , some excellent points , great thread. I do agree new york , once you get past say like west point area is very much like pennsylvania. The people, the landscape, the climate... all very similar. And pennsylvania once outside of the philly and pittsburgh area is pretty much the same too.

I'm glad to hear someone say they are proud to be a hillbilly or a redneck,

Damn skippy.

Originally Posted by cincur63

they say it here in chambersburg pa where i am , and people think i'm insulting them if i say it. They say pensyltucky here too. I didn't make up these words , they use them and are proud of them and their heritage. Just as ny'ers are ok with saying we are rude and always in a hurry.

The taxes are higher in NY, but i have found that you get what you pay for in taxes. I would much rather pay $1000 more a year if they could clear the roads better in the snow and ice. And the schools could use a little improving too. I'm not sure how the schools are in upstate NY ?? anyone know that?

I think NY state spends the most per student than any other state. I'm not sure if this really reflects the quality though.

I know as far as Colleges NY has some real leaders. But aren't those self financed? I don't know.

Originally Posted by cincur63

Politics , I know in my area is more conservative, but as a whole i think both states are comparable, with the city areas being more democratic and the country areas being more republican.

That's about right. NY having a more liberal slant because it does have a considerably enormous urban population. But the rural areas are quite conservative.

[ki0eh]

The gas drilling in PA, under a veneer of regulations fraught with exceptions based in both state and federal law, essentially has very little land use based restrictions. PA of course has a 200 year history of major fossil fuel extraction, and oil and gas regulations haven't been comprehensively dusted off since the 1930's.

NY state has a State Environmental Quality Review (SEQR) law applicable to private actions, dating from the 1970's. That is a whole category of review that PA does not have on private actions among private parties.

PA's legislature has comparatively small state representative districts, making it far more likely that legislators will come from small rural communities. Between Philadelphia, Pittsburgh, and the medium size cities of PA (Allentown, Scranton, Erie, Harrisburg, etc.) leadership too in PA is much more multipolar. At the moment both the Speaker of the PA House and the majority leader of the PA Senate are from Jefferson County, home of the groundhog. Can you even imagine NY State Assembly and Senate leaders both coming from Yates and Schuyler counties, which would be the approximate equivalent?

[cincur63]

Actually, and this is an honest question, what is the difference in the way the two states are approaching it? As far I knew this was a rapidly developing problem on both sides for residents.


I've been told to watch a documentary called gasland by hbo, i have yet to watch it, and i think msnbc has a video out on the freaking fracking.

[cincur63]

As for colleges i think both states have excellent colleges, it's probably pretty equal there and since you do pay for it, that's a real personal choice i guess. I just got the old community college, get what i paid for degree. But i know Penn state is real big here ($$$$) but both states offer a wide array of colleges.

[CookieSkoon]

Originally Posted by ki0eh

The gas drilling in PA, under a veneer of regulations fraught with exceptions based in both state and federal law, essentially has very little land use based restrictions. PA of course has a 200 year history of major fossil fuel extraction, and oil and gas regulations haven't been comprehensively dusted off since the 1930's.

NY state has a State Environmental Quality Review (SEQR) law applicable to private actions, dating from the 1970's. That is a whole category of review that PA does not have on private actions among private parties.

PA's legislature has comparatively small state representative districts, making it far more likely that legislators will come from small rural communities. Between Philadelphia, Pittsburgh, and the medium size cities of PA (Allentown, Scranton, Erie, Harrisburg, etc.) leadership too in PA is much more multipolar. At the moment both the Speaker of the PA House and the majority leader of the PA Senate are from Jefferson County, home of the groundhog. Can you even imagine NY State Assembly and Senate leaders both coming from Yates and Schuyler counties, which would be the approximate equivalent?

Interesting!

You have a point. Hell, having some state politicians from rural NY at all would be somewhat of a shocker.

[CookieSkoon]

Originally Posted by cincur63

As for colleges i think both states have excellent colleges, it's probably pretty equal there and since you do pay for it, that's a real personal choice i guess. I just got the old community college, get what i paid for degree. But i know Penn state is real big here ($$$$) but both states offer a wide array of colleges.

I would have to agree, coming from the states.

I was thinking about Cornell and how it has reputation even overseas. Does PA have a major college like that? (once again, honest question, not a challenge) Is Penn state as well known?

I certainly would not put Cornell above any other good college. I'm talking strictly in popularity.

Fun fact: I did drywall with my uncle on Cornell campus years ago.

[ki0eh]

Well, PA does have its entry in the Ivy League, the University of Pennsylvania aka Penn, in Philadelphia. Penn State is about 2x as large as Cornell considering just the main University Park campus so there is leadership in many fields. University of Pittsburgh and Carnegie-Mellon are kinda big deals too.

College towns do seem more numerous in NY though. It seemed that a fair number of students when I was at Syracuse came from the Philadelphia area, a noticeably higher percentage than when I was at Cornell which had a proportionately much higher draw from the NYC metro and New Jersey.

[Duderino]

I can definitely see the similarities between these two states, due in no small part to sharing a considerable border. The comparisons of the large urban areas at the bookends of each state and relatively large rural population in between has already been made. ki0eh has provided us with a very interesting history lesson with regard to the cultural/media ties between North Central PA and South Central NY. Also, based on the anecdotes of CookieSkoon and others, apparently there is a rugged, rural culture that is alive and well in both states outside of the urban areas.

Another point, I believe, is that New York and Pennsylvania have historically been major immigrant/migrant gateways, particularly with strong communities of ethnic Whites (Irish, Italian, German, Polish, etc.) and African-Americans being found throughout both states. This had been due to the draw of similar industrial/manufacturing economies, but now many of these formerly thriving "Rust Best" communities in both states are trying to re-invent themselves today. Also, due to their economic prowess, large populations and impressive cultural institutions (colleges/universities, museums, music, medical, etc.) both states have historically been among the most powerful in the country.

Religiously, both states have strong Catholic heritage, although Mainline Protestant denominations seem to have more of a historic presence in PA.

As far as the differences, the major one has already been touched upon, and that is New York appears to be far more dominated culturally and politically by its major commercial center (NYC). Although I'd argue that the trajectory for Pennsylvania is for its major urban centers (e.g., Philadelphia and Pittsburgh) to continue to rise in prominence (most rural areas of PA continue to lose population or are stagnant), Pennsylvania's rural interests currently hold larger sway on the policy decisions of the state than NY.

Overall, a good and interesting comparison.