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Criminal all around - that's what I'd say, while listening to this man. He lost five members of his family there - 3 of his children, ages 7, 5, 2, his wife and his sister.
He was on the phone with them during this ordeal. What they told him was that they were LOCKED inside the movie theater with no way out.
(There were three auditoriums there, there were movies + cartoons going on in all three of them. TWO of them ( where the majority of spectators were children) were LOCKED. The third one was open, so people were able to evacuate. )
Then I hear the reports that practically the whole class ( from some near-by little town) arrived on a bus ( it's a time of spring vacation after all,) and was in one of the locked auditoriums. A teacher and two parents that were chaperoning them went to the mall, leaving children behind in the locked auditorium.
What this man is saying is he doesn't believe in official figure of "64," because there were much more people locked in those two auditoriums alone.
What kind of chaperoning is that?! And it's still not clear whether the main doors were locked, or just the other exit doors. Someone said the main doors were clear. Possibly, if the "chaperones" had been present, they could have ushered all the kids out. There's not enough info.
They lock the emergency doors as a lazy way to keep people from sneaking in. This should not surprise anyone who has lived there, I saw stuff like this all the time. Russian media still looking for a way to spin this away from being a product of corruption and no rules of law society that their leaders embrace. Unfortunately for Putin, the locals are saying this is exactly what is at fault. And nobody trusts their lying state media to not cover up (reduce) the number of child fatalities. I expect high profile arrests of people in charge of the mall, as that's how Putin always cleans up the failures of his society, blame others.
What kind of chaperoning is that?! And it's still not clear whether the main doors were locked, or just the other exit doors. Someone said the main doors were clear. Possibly, if the "chaperones" had been present, they could have ushered all the kids out. There's not enough info.
In all honesty, the way I see it, if the teacher and the chaperons would have stayed with children in one of those two auditoriums that were locked, they would have died with children. Because ALL doors were locked there - not just the main entrance ( that is if there were any emergency exits in those auditoriums to begin with.) Because if they WERE, they were locked throughout the whole shopping mall. ( I saw the video of men, trying to break those metal doors amidst all the smoke. To no avail of course.)
Now the MAIN shopping mall doors were open from what I understand - on the first floor. So initially, there was a stampede ( when people finally realized that there was fire in the building, on the upper floors. There was no fire alarm, no nothing, just the lights went out everywhere.) But the witnesses are saying that few men stepped forward and put the crowd under control and let let everyone who made it to exit, to make it safe outside of the building. Some men tried to run upstairs, where the fire was, to help more people, but the upper floors were already engulfed - the movie theater with all the children first of all.
The fire itself started on the fourth floor, where all the children's entertainment centers were. There are few versions of what started the fire, but no definite proof yet. Those on the fourth floor that were quick enough to spot the fire, and who run in the RIGHT direction ( that is towards the main staircase) made it to the exit on the first floor and survived. Those who run to the emergency exit, most likely perished, because once they've run downstairs, they've realized that the emergency doors were locked.
Overall people are saying that the whole building is such a maze, that it was difficult to figure out where to run, particularly in the dark.
This is what I am gathering while going through the witnesses stories.
The fire department was extremely slow that day and not well-prepared at all. From what I gather, they didn't believe that there was fire going on in that shopping center. But the authorities are insisting that the fire department made it there in the matter of seven minutes. Which people don't believe, as much as they don't believe the official number of 64 deceased, taking in consideration the scope of the fire and building destruction ( part of the 4th floor crumbled on top of the third floor,) and the fact that there were at least 1,500 people there on that day, (there is spring break in schools going on.)
By the time Moscow realized the gravity of disaster, Putin made it to Kemerovo.
P.S. The owner of this shopping mall ( whatever his name is) is currently in Australia.
We can safely assume that a lot of those deaths came about because of the layout of the building, locked doors and people being lost in the dark. I saw no emergency lighting anywhere, no illuminated exit signs. When I was in the US Navy in Norfolk in the early 1980s we had damage control training, both fire and flooding. You learn not only how to fight fires in real life you learn rescue and escape. I bet that place filled up with smoke so fast most of the victims died of asphyxiation quickly. It can take mere seconds to lose consciousness in a smokey, toxic environment.
I definitely think there's a lot wrong when it comes to this building. This is a tragedy that could have been prevented.
Yes, as in few auditoriums in a movie theater for example.
And yes, there were A LOT of things that went SOOO wrong there, not just "weird."
That's why there is a huge mass protest going on in Kemerovo right now, with people demanding to know the true number of victims and demanding the resignation of the officials in charge, (whoever they might be.)
( Here the crowd is basically chanting "a lie" in response to the words of one of the officials that the number of perished officially stands at 64 people.) People are definitely angry.
A lot of rumors going around right now, especially over things like the number of people killed, people outside who wanted to go in and rescue saying security guards told them there was no one inside and not allowing them to enter the building, and that the security inside told kids not to go down the escalator and to go back and find some other route (which there was none). That is aside from all the other things like locked doors and no alarms.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Selen
That’s horrible. Why did they lock the cinemas? Maybe they wanted to prevent children from going out during the cartoon but it’s an incredibly dangerous thing to do.
It is some strange habit many have to keep people from sneaking in, or taking off with stolen stuff, they do it even when no reason to, out of habit.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alec Solano
Putin kills children in Kemerovo
Yea yea, and Bush killed people in the Station nightclub fire and Obama killed people in the Oakland warehouse fire.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Scrat335
They're saying EMERGENCY exits in the theatres were locked, not the main accesses. We still don't know the facts, Where the fire started and progressed. I'm not even clear on what floor it started on. It's understandable that people are furious too, one man lost everything important in his life.
Somebody screwed up, those doors should have not been locked. Period. Whoever made that policy needs to be punished. If that building isn't up to code then the people responsible need to be punished. Especially the inspectors who wrote off the bad construction if any. One thing that struck me is the building had no exterior means to escape from the upper floors. Take a llok at the videos. There should have been ladders it seems to me.
The emergency exits were locked, only the main exits opened. No idea still how the fire started, but the videos show it spread very, very fast, and the smoke was very thick and spread very fast. Most buildings there have no means to escape like a ladder outside (hell, they do not in the US either). The fire escapes for buildings are usually stairwells, have no idea if this building had them on the upper floors, they clearly had them on the bottom floor. This was a converted factory, so it is possibly not to have these stairwells unlike purposely built buildings for these purposes.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ruth4Truth
What kind of chaperoning is that?! And it's still not clear whether the main doors were locked, or just the other exit doors. Someone said the main doors were clear. Possibly, if the "chaperones" had been present, they could have ushered all the kids out. There's not enough info.
Chaperoning like that is not uncommon there, they operate on "it takes a village" concept, and the children there are usually pretty responsible, sort of like the US up until the 80's/90's or so depending on where you lived. There is usually an adult or two around though, they perhaps died in the fire also with the children.
Quote:
Originally Posted by DKM
They lock the emergency doors as a lazy way to keep people from sneaking in. This should not surprise anyone who has lived there, I saw stuff like this all the time. Russian media still looking for a way to spin this away from being a product of corruption and no rules of law society that their leaders embrace. Unfortunately for Putin, the locals are saying this is exactly what is at fault. And nobody trusts their lying state media to not cover up (reduce) the number of child fatalities. I expect high profile arrests of people in charge of the mall, as that's how Putin always cleans up the failures of his society, blame others.
Exactly. Locking emergency exits is an issue along with the absence of things like sprinkler systems and fire alarms. This seems to be a converted factory, so it may be lacking things like multiple stairwells that a purposely built shopping center has. Given the rapid spread of the fire and the very thick, black smoke, seems there was materials used that should not have been used or they were stored there for some reason.
I would be surprised if there were not rules/regs for these things, because I have seen plenty of shopping areas that have exits, sprinklers, etc, but would not be surprised if through negligence and/or corruption these things were not enforced for this shopping center.
If this building is a retrofit then there may be different codes for that but as a public building they still should be pretty strict. I'm going to point a finger at the buildings local management and security.
I'll bet there's going to be some changes all across Russia now. I've seen things in markets over there that made me nervous now that I think of it. Jury rigged power supplies and things like that. They will certainly start fires and if you think about it the fire started then the lights went out.
How much you want to be there was too much plugged into a light socket?
If this building is a retrofit then there may be different codes for that but as a public building they still should be pretty strict. I'm going to point a finger at the buildings local management and security.
I'll bet there's going to be some changes all across Russia now. I've seen things in markets over there that made me nervous now that I think of it. Jury rigged power supplies and things like that. They will certainly start fires and if you think about it the fire started then the lights went out.
How much you want to be there was too much plugged into a light socket?
The interviews with building officials that are out now are pretty entertaining.
The codes should be generally the same, I am betting it was just old fashion greed by way of skimping on things, paying off some people, and hoping nothing happens to expose them.
With the attention this is getting, including the personal attention of Putin, I am sure every shopping center owner and gov officials are scrambling to make sure the places are operating in accordance to the rules and regs.
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