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"A combined 80 percent of Ukrainians nationwide and a combined 73 percent in the Donbas region believe that separatist-controlled areas of the Donbas should remain under Ukrainian control. Only six percent nationwide and four percent in the Donbas believe that these areas should either be separated from Ukraine or become part of Russia."
If that were remotely true, the Donbass crisis would be resolved in short order...if the popular support were that low, civilians would not tolerate continuous shelling as it is....the population may eventually get tired of the war and accept a forced re-unification with Ukraine (sowing the seeds of another flare-up down the road)..but that is different and far from happening anytime soon.
Support for separatism was indeed low in southern east Ukraine and, in fact, after few initial tussles, it died down.
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The point is that there are 100 more easy ways to get into Russia from Syria than trekking trough Eastern Anatolia and the Caucasus.
For some specific acts of terror in big Russian cities yes, we are talking about establishing roots, instigate separatism, attempts to set up a Islamic caliphate, etc...
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The situation in the Middle East is a global problem, and that's why there are so many parties involved.
The situation in Middle East was made a "global problem" from continuous meddling of certain parties which are comfortably far away from the region.....but neighboring countries have the most to lose (and one of them is Russia)
If that was remotely true, the Donbass crisis would be resolved in short order...if the popular support were that low, civilians would not tolerate continuous shelling as it is....the population may eventually get tired of the war and accept a forced re-unification with Ukraine (sowing the seeds of another flare-up down the road)..but that is different and far from happening anytime soon.
Support for separatism was indeed low in southern east Ukraine and, in fact, after few initial tussles it died down.
How could the civilians do anything? The only ones left there are the sick and elderly who have nowhere to go. All others have left. And it's all up to Russia, not "the people of Donbass". Without active Russian support the separatists would've been wiped out in Autumn 2014. If Putin would say this war stops tomorrow, it would stop tomorrow. But he has no intention of doing that.
How could the civilians do anything? The only ones left there are the sick and elderly who have nowhere to go. All others have left. And it's all up to Russia, not "the people of Donbass". Without active Russian support the separatist would've been wiped out in Autumn 2014. If Putin would say this war stops tomorrow, it would stop tomorrow. But he has no intention of doing that.
Russia did (and does) logistically support separatists for sure...but they are the ones keeping the fight...people may have temporarily left but that does not mean that they are not willing to return and that they would support being part of Ukraine (especially with the current government)....Putin is not the only one keeping the war alive, as a matter of fact he would favor a settlement between the separatists and Ukraine. I suspect a stalemate like in South Ossetia and Abkhazia is in the cards.
How could the civilians do anything? The only ones left there are the sick and elderly who have nowhere to go. All others have left. And it's all up to Russia, not "the people of Donbass". Without active Russian support the separatists would've been wiped out in Autumn 2014. If Putin would say this war stops tomorrow, it would stop tomorrow. But he has no intention of doing that.
That is the point. The people would've been wiped out. The Odessa massacre fanned fears in Eastern Ukraine of what was next. Leaked call recordings captured Nuland directing the regime to play hardball against the ethnic Russian provinces.
That is the point. The people would've been wiped out. The Odessa massacre fanned fears in Eastern Ukraine of what was next. Leaked call recordings captured Nuland directing the regime to play hardball against the ethnic Russian provinces.
I would actually say that Ukrainians would not longer back the coupe if they could go back in time given that their countries has been tore apart and the loss of Crimea which will never ever come back.
Russia did (and does) logistically support separatists for sure...but they are the ones keeping the fight...people may have temporarily left but that does not mean that they are not willing to return and that they would support being part of Ukraine (especially with the current government)....Putin is not the only one keeping the war alive, as a matter of fact he would favor a settlement between the separatists and Ukraine. I suspect a stalemate like in South Ossetia and Abkhazia is in the cards.
The separatists are nearly not numerous enough to keep up the fight. Putin is definitely the only one keeping the war alive, it's completely clear.
And if the poll says that 73% of the people in Donetsk and Luhansk oblasts, refugees or not, wants to stay with Ukraine, they support being part of Ukraine. Or did you just forget that already?
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Originally Posted by lchoro
That is the point. The people would've been wiped out. The Odessa massacre fanned fears in Eastern Ukraine of what was next.
Yes, just like the 1.7 million people leaving Donetsk and Luhansk have all been wiped out. Oh, but they haven't been.
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Originally Posted by saturno_v
I would actually say that Ukrainians would not longer back the coupe if they could go back in time given that their countries has been tore apart and the loss of Crimea which will never ever come back.
Oh so now the annexation of Crimea is Ukraine's fault?
The separatists are nearly not numerous enough to keep up the fight. Putin is definitely the only one keeping the war alive, it's completely clear.
And if the poll says that 73% of the people in Donetsk and Luhansk oblasts, refugees or not, wants to stay with Ukraine, they support being part of Ukraine. Or did you just forget that already?
There are no Russian troops in Donbass, the separatist evidently still have enough support to keep the fight.
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Oh so now the annexation of Crimea is Ukraine's fault?
The DNR/LNR had between 30 and 45000 men under arms in 2015. In the summer of 2014 it was around 15,000. Now it's rumored to be 10 to 20 k. A lot of those in the summer of 2015 were Ukrainians from Russia and Russians looking to kill fascists. Not a bad thing all in all.
Considering what has happened in Ukraine Russia has a MORAL OBLIGATION to protect Novorussia. As for your poll it's just that and we see them all the time. The momentum is in favor of independence, most Novorussians are ambivalent adn don't care. A large majority hate Kiev and we all know who those feelings are directed at and why.
There are no "Russian" troops in the Donbas, if you use the Putin definition: There are no Russian insignia wearing soldiers on official duties. There were in 2014 for a while but that was an emergency action to save the actual rebels from losing the war. Neither are the supplied tanks "Russian" tanks because they painted over the official symbols. They also mostly consist of older tanks which could theoretically be stolen from elsewhere in Ukraine. However, the dead ones are officially Russian soldiers because their families get the benefits of Russian soldiers killed in action (as long as they don't talk about it). Many countries have done this in the past, so its not like they invented the concept.
There are actual Ukrainian rebels who do comprise the majority of the rebel soldiers. And real Russian volunteers too. Its not hard to imagine this when you see the kind of lies being told about Ukraine in 2014... they really thought there was a fascist invasion happening. They no longer believe in these lies because the majority of prisoners they were taking were Russian speaking and from East Ukraine.
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