Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
Warfare doesn't only rely on technology alone, it relies on doctrine also. The German blitzkrieg (combined arms warfare) was the product of a doctrine of warfare. The Red Army learned to adapt their doctrine to fight the same way and took it even farther.
Doctrines also come and go, they're subject to the situational nature of warfare. The Soviets switched doctrines several times in the first years of WWII when the situation demanded it. The "liquid front" worked really well in 1942 and 1943 against the Germans in their fortified villages, towns and cities of occupied Russia.
It's not about who has the best technology. It's about how you use what you have. An old T-55 with it's 100mm gun can kill and Abrams from the side or rear from medium ranges. The Abrams has a problem, it takes humans to use it. It can only shoot as far as the crew can see. That's nothing to what can be said for its vulnerability to well armed infantry.
There's one big factor that many people don't know about in the Russo/German war. How the Russians beat the Wehrmachts armored formations. They used artillery and specifically, the 82mm and 122mm mortars. Over 600,000 of these 2 mortars were produced along with the ammunition for them. Russians realized that only way to defeat the German armored formations was to change their doctrine of tank on tank combat. They changed doctrine to infantry vs tanks by stripping the protective infantry from the German formations. They went tank hunting. Study the battle of Ponyri.
If you think the US is going to win a war against a peer opponent such as Russia even with their old junk good for you. It's not a bet I would take.
You are wasting your time talking history and detailed strategy with DKM
Quote:
Where has Russian supplied hardware beat American?
I already did...Korea and Vietnam.
Cuba eventually gained air supremacy in Angola in the mid 80s against South Africa (the SAAF planes were French but a lot of electronic equipment were also supplied by Americans despite the embargo).
...and the South Africans were definitely not a ragtag force, they were as good as the Israelis.
Quote:
It's not a bet I would take.
..likewise no serious American military analyst.
Simulation done over and over by RAND and other Pentagon linked think-thanks
"If NATO started a war in the Baltics, NATO would lose, quickly"
None of these scenarios involve use of nuclear weapons, just conventional
Where I do think that there is a little bit of excessive alarmism in these warnings motivated by demands for increases in military budgets, the truth is somewhere in between.
But what do they know, they should hire DKM as consultant, the US would beat Russia in 3 days straight and a victory parade of F-35 would be flown over the Kremlin....
Last edited by saturno_v; 05-04-2021 at 10:31 PM..
We beat Soviet aircraft in Korea and Vietnam too, but I have better things to do than defend claims you are pretending I made. Go ahead and say I claimed we would beat Russia in some hypothetical war scenario. That will never happen in our lifetimes, and has no reason to ever happen so I don't care if Russia COULD occupy the Baltics. Its like saying well Russia COULD take over Ukraine. Yeah but they won't because I know they aren't willing to pay the price. Maybe they are willing to, but attacking the Baltics would risk annihilation. I don't see Russia as a suicide cult. I don't care because I know these things won't happen.
What I am deconstructing is this idea I read here that somehow Russia is ahead of America in some area or another. Not even close. Not in any measurable construct, from technology, to standard of living, economic, demographic or other measurement is Russia anything near an equal to the United States. It might be better for some people there, no doubt anyone with "connections" has it made, since labor is cheap so you can live well if you secured a dollar based income. There is no Russian technology even close to what we produce, in space, warfare, commerce, you name it. It is not even close to 2nd or 3rd place either. Putin can get in front of his TV stations and say any nonsense and his sheep believe it because they want to believe Russia is still important to the world besides being a raw materials supplier and a permanent member of the UN. He can pretend they are inventing this or that and will make great achievements soon but it is all 100% bull. Russia is a rump of the Soviet Union still coming to terms with its declining status. So be it.
We beat Soviet aircraft in Korea and Vietnam too, but I have better things to do than defend claims you are pretending I made. Go ahead and say I claimed we would beat Russia in some hypothetical war scenario. That will never happen in our lifetimes, and has no reason to ever happen so I don't care if Russia COULD occupy the Baltics. Its like saying well Russia COULD take over Ukraine. Yeah but they won't because I know they aren't willing to pay the price. Maybe they are willing to, but attacking the Baltics would risk annihilation. I don't see Russia as a suicide cult. I don't care because I know these things won't happen.
What I am deconstructing is this idea I read here that somehow Russia is ahead of America in some area or another. Not even close. Not in any measurable construct, from technology, to standard of living, economic, demographic or other measurement is Russia anything near an equal to the United States. It might be better for some people there, no doubt anyone with "connections" has it made, since labor is cheap so you can live well if you secured a dollar based income. There is no Russian technology even close to what we produce, in space, warfare, commerce, you name it. It is not even close to 2nd or 3rd place either. Putin can get in front of his TV stations and say any nonsense and his sheep believe it because they want to believe Russia is still important to the world besides being a raw materials supplier and a permanent member of the UN. He can pretend they are inventing this or that and will make great achievements soon but it is all 100% bull. Russia is a rump of the Soviet Union still coming to terms with its declining status. So be it.
How ridiculous you are, DKM, in your tenacity. Where did you beat who?
Have you ever heard of the "Alley of MiGs"!? And about "Black Thursday"!?
Quote:
On April 12, 1951, an event occurred in the sky of Korea that went down in American history as "Black Thursday". In less than 10 minutes, the USAF lost 14 aircraft: 10 heavy bombers and 4 fighters, and 15 more heavy bombers were written off after returning to base. About 120 personnel were captured. The Soviet fighters that attacked them returned to the base without losses.[6]
On October 30, 21 Superfortresses, accompanied by almost 200 fighters of various types, were attacked by forty-four MiG-15s (according to other sources, the last raid was made by B-29 bombers on October 28, 1951[7]). As a result of the battle, the Soviet pilots shot down twelve B-29s and 4 F-84s. In addition, many "Fortresses" were damaged — almost every returning crew brought dead or wounded. The Americans managed to shoot down only one MiG-15. [8]. In the history of the US Air Force, this day went down as "Black Tuesday". After that, for three days, no American aircraft appeared in the MiG zone (according to other sources, already on November 1, a group of 14 F-84s appeared in the MiG zone[9]).
Only a month later, three B-29s, covered by "Sabres", tried to raid again in the daytime on the crossings of the Yalu River. However, MiGs shot down all three cars.
Quote:
In the air battles over the "Alley of MiGs" appeared a lot of Soviet and American pilots-aces. The record holder of the Korean War on the part of the Soviet Union was Nikolai Sutyagin, who personally shot down 21 aircraft. He has 15 F-86 Sabres, 2 F-80 Shooting Stars, 2 F-84 Thunderjets, and 2 Gloucester Meteor jets. Colonel Yevgeny Pepelyaev also won 20 air battles.
The American side claimed that 792 MiGs and 108 other aircraft were shot down by the Sabres, with the loss of only 78 F-86s. It should be clarified that the official figure of 78 losses is based on an estimate of the number of fighters lost directly from the fire, it does not take into account the loss of fuel consumption or air maneuver in air battles, and there were also "Sabres" shot down by unknown things and missing. In total, the Americans recognized the loss of 250 Sabres in the war[10]. Losses in air battles of other American aircraft are unknown (for example, B-29 for all reasons, about 90 units were lost[10]).
The Soviet side claimed 1106 aerial victories and 335 MiGs lost for all reasons in combat and non-combat sorties.
The book "Alley of MiGs", published in the United States in 1970, is silent, for example, about the exploits of Sutyagin, and the first jet ace in history is called Captain James Jabara, who scored 15 aerial victories[2] (however, even in the Soviet Union, the details of the participation of Soviet aviation in the Korean War were hidden from the general public for a long time).
We beat Soviet aircraft in Korea and Vietnam too, but I have better things to do than defend claims you are pretending I made. Go ahead and say I claimed we would beat Russia in some hypothetical war scenario. That will never happen in our lifetimes, and has no reason to ever happen so I don't care if Russia COULD occupy the Baltics. Its like saying well Russia COULD take over Ukraine. Yeah but they won't because I know they aren't willing to pay the price. Maybe they are willing to, but attacking the Baltics would risk annihilation. I don't see Russia as a suicide cult. I don't care because I know these things won't happen.
What I am deconstructing is this idea I read here that somehow Russia is ahead of America in some area or another. Not even close. Not in any measurable construct, from technology, to standard of living, economic, demographic or other measurement is Russia anything near an equal to the United States. It might be better for some people there, no doubt anyone with "connections" has it made, since labor is cheap so you can live well if you secured a dollar based income. There is no Russian technology even close to what we produce, in space, warfare, commerce, you name it. It is not even close to 2nd or 3rd place either. Putin can get in front of his TV stations and say any nonsense and his sheep believe it because they want to believe Russia is still important to the world besides being a raw materials supplier and a permanent member of the UN. He can pretend they are inventing this or that and will make great achievements soon but it is all 100% bull. Russia is a rump of the Soviet Union still coming to terms with its declining status. So be it.
Your livor emerge so clearly...I really wish to know what made you so angry at Russia to be so blind and making ridiculous statements.
While the US is a quite more powerful country than Russia, no doubt, you assessment is truly silly, Russia has indeed interesting (and even desirable) technology, especially military technology, and the country is definitely infinitely better than it was at the end of the 1990s.
The "Russia is a declining power" theme has been an extremely costly miscalculation for the west. Like it or not, Russia is back at the table of great powers but it definitely needs to do more for its economic developments...what is holding it back, interestingly, are a bunch of western indoctrinated economists that need to go.
There are areas where Russia is indeed ahead of the US (from nuclear power to icebreaking technology, hypersonic weapons, etc...) but talking to you is rather pointless.
Like it or not, Russia has been the first country to produce a COVID vaccine and I do not need your nonsense about how not ineffective it is.
Your livor emerge so clearly...I really wish to know what made you so angry at Russia to be so blind and making ridiculous statements.
While the US is a quite more powerful country than Russia, no doubt, you assessment is truly silly, Russia has indeed interesting (and even desirable) technology, especially military technology, and the country is definitely infinitely better than it was at the end of the 1990s.
The "Russia is a declining power" theme has been an extremely costly miscalculation for the west. Like it or not, Russia is back at the table of great powers but it definitely needs to do more for its economic developments...what is holding it back, interestingly, are a bunch of western indoctrinated economists that need to go.
There are areas where Russia is indeed ahead of the US (from nuclear power to icebreaking technology, hypersonic weapons, etc...) but talking to you is rather pointless.
Like it or not, Russia has been the first country to produce a COVID vaccine and I do not need your nonsense about how not ineffective it is.
I agree with you. Yes, in some areas, Russia lags behind the United States and Europe due to the lack or loses of technology. But on the other hand, Russia is far ahead of both the United States and Europe in some areas. In industry and services, there are quite a lot of industries where we are almost in no way inferior, or even superior. For example, in Russia, the banking sector is very technologically developed. This includes various online services for opening an account and submitting applications advanced payment systems and much more.. Tell me, can you transfer money to a friend's bank card through a mobile app using their cell phone number?
The US has already lost its technological leadership, giving it to China. And they did it with their own hands, moving many of their production facilities to China.
Your livor emerge so clearly...I really wish to know what made you so angry at Russia to be so blind and making ridiculous statements.
I used to love Russia, and when I was there I thought Moscow was the most happening place of the world (and it was in many ways). Attacking Ukraine woke me up to the rottenness of the authoritarian in charge there. That and having Russian friends who fled here from Putin's punishers may have given me some bias against the current situation there. In general, what I hate most about Russia is they actively work (usually with violence) to deny people freedom of making their own choices inside and outside of Russia. Not only in Ukraine...
Quote:
Originally Posted by saturno_v
Like it or not, Russia has been the first country to produce a COVID vaccine and I do not need your nonsense about how not ineffective it is.
This isn't true. It is a lie pushed by Putin. Too bad if you want to believe it became the first "produced" when it was simply the first "approved" by approving it before the efficacy trial. I don't care if you think that counts.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zimogor
For example, in Russia, the banking sector is very technologically developed. This includes various online services for opening an account and submitting applications advanced payment systems and much more.. Tell me, can you transfer money to a friend's bank card through a mobile app using their cell phone number?
Yes of course we have Venmo, invented 11 years ago. Actually this is yet another example of a "Russian" advancement marketed to you by your regime, which lies to its people to legitimize its rotten existence. This was just another idea stolen/borrowed from the west. Paypal also invented the idea before this, of transferring money using an email. VK is a blatant ripoff of Facebook, also stolen from its inventors by Putin's regime. They had to leave Russia to found Telegram. I could go on but I've made my point.
I agree with you. Yes, in some areas, Russia lags behind the United States and Europe due to the lack or loses of technology. But on the other hand, Russia is far ahead of both the United States and Europe in some areas. In industry and services, there are quite a lot of industries where we are almost in no way inferior, or even superior. For example, in Russia, the banking sector is very technologically developed. This includes various online services for opening an account and submitting applications advanced payment systems and much more.. Tell me, can you transfer money to a friend's bank card through a mobile app using their cell phone number?
The US has already lost its technological leadership, giving it to China. And they did it with their own hands, moving many of their production facilities to China.
US by "moving many of their production facilities to China" and through FTT (forced technology transfer), has made the latter wealthy and self-sufficient.
US has always been careful in transferring technologies outside home territories. But they underestimated the fervor of their "most favored nation" turned "competitor".
Quote:
CCP acquires others' research by co-opting Chinese nationals, secretly paying foreign scientists to recreate research in the People's Republic of China (PRC), and sending military officers abroad disguised as civilians to steal technology and information to advance the PRC's military and economic development goals.
US has not lost its technological leadership yet.
But a rapid economic growth in China helped to reduced poverty by over 60%, that translated to 748.5 million people. Just look at the riots and looting, when a country fails to cultivate its bottom rungs of the barrel.
it's pretty obvious to anyone keeping up what is going on. Russia, China, Iran and others on the World Island are getting very cozy. Even Germany is getting in on it. The rest of Europe? Who knows. China is the next leader of this world.
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
Where did you beat who? 
