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Old 05-04-2021, 07:34 AM
 
9,511 posts, read 5,438,768 times
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Enough of this infantile playground crap. It's boring and tedious.
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Old 05-04-2021, 08:42 AM
 
3,950 posts, read 3,300,229 times
Reputation: 1692
Quote:
Originally Posted by DKM View Post
Israel, Turkey and America have all shot down how many Russian made aircraft since Vietnam? Vs the other way.

OK how about aircraft types still in service. Here you go:

F-16

76-1... oh but that was shot down by a French Mirage.

F-15

103-0

F-18

2-1 (maybe)

181 kills to one loss... Some of those kills were probably a few French made aircraft in between...
Training DKM....training and skills....give American airplanes to unskilled, unmotivated pilots and see what happen.

I would put my money on Russian pilots flying Mig-23 vs. Saudi Pilots flying F-15.....

Quote:

The F-35 is used for force projection. The F-15 is an interceptor. These are not the same role, that is the reason we have both.
The F-35 is a flying brick, a terrible airplane.
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Old 05-04-2021, 09:47 AM
 
Location: West Coast of Europe
25,947 posts, read 24,739,641 times
Reputation: 9728
Indeed, Russian planes are fine, but they are often used by countries where pilot training is mediocre at best.
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Old 05-04-2021, 10:05 AM
 
3,950 posts, read 3,300,229 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Neuling View Post
Indeed, Russian planes are fine, but they are often used by countries where pilot training is mediocre at best.

At the end of the day, in conflicts where the US armed forces were up against an opponent that was not a peer competitor but at least with a steady reliable supply of Russian hardware.


Korea - draw (barely)

Vietnam - Loss for the US


End of story.


Israel downing old, probably poorly maintained Russian jets flown by a rag-tag fourth tier "air force" (in quotes) it does not count.
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Old 05-04-2021, 02:48 PM
DKM
 
Location: California
6,767 posts, read 3,855,314 times
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And my point is we have advanced past "peer" Soviet technology from 50 years ago... Russia has not
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Old 05-04-2021, 02:56 PM
 
Location: West Coast of Europe
25,947 posts, read 24,739,641 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DKM View Post
And my point is we have advanced past "peer" Soviet technology from 50 years ago... Russia has not
That makes no sense. You are the one that seems to live in the past.
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Old 05-04-2021, 04:56 PM
 
3,950 posts, read 3,300,229 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DKM View Post
And my point is we have advanced past "peer" Soviet technology from 50 years ago... Russia has not

You are truly delusional...you really think Russian planes are still at the Mig 21 era.
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Old 05-04-2021, 04:59 PM
 
3,950 posts, read 3,300,229 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Neuling View Post
That makes no sense. You are the one that seems to live in the past.
It's utter ridiculous.
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Old 05-04-2021, 05:37 PM
DKM
 
Location: California
6,767 posts, read 3,855,314 times
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Where has Russian supplied hardware beat American? Or do we just arm only the smart and well trained countries and Russia only arms countries that apparently can't use their great equipment. Back your claims up with facts and figures as I have. You can't because no evidence exists that Russian hardware is not TOTALLY outclassed by ours.
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Old 05-04-2021, 07:07 PM
 
9,511 posts, read 5,438,768 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DKM View Post
And my point is we have advanced past "peer" Soviet technology from 50 years ago... Russia has not
Warfare doesn't only rely on technology alone, it relies on doctrine also. The German blitzkrieg (combined arms warfare) was the product of a doctrine of warfare. The Red Army learned to adapt their doctrine to fight the same way and took it even farther.

Doctrines also come and go, they're subject to the situational nature of warfare. The Soviets switched doctrines several times in the first years of WWII when the situation demanded it. The "liquid front" worked really well in 1942 and 1943 against the Germans in their fortified villages, towns and cities of occupied Russia.

It's not about who has the best technology. It's about how you use what you have. An old T-55 with it's 100mm gun can kill and Abrams from the side or rear from medium ranges. The Abrams has a problem, it takes humans to use it. It can only shoot as far as the crew can see. That's nothing to what can be said for its vulnerability to well armed infantry.

There's one big factor that many people don't know about in the Russo/German war. How the Russians beat the Wehrmachts armored formations. They used artillery and specifically, the 82mm and 122mm mortars. Over 600,000 of these 2 mortars were produced along with the ammunition for them. Russians realized that only way to defeat the German armored formations was to change their doctrine of tank on tank combat. They changed doctrine to infantry vs tanks by stripping the protective infantry from the German formations. They went tank hunting. Study the battle of Ponyri.

If you think the US is going to win a war against a peer opponent such as Russia even with their old junk good for you. It's not a bet I would take.
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