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Their Airforce is questionable but their air defenses are not.
I do not agree that much hat Russian air force is questionable, sure they use some old planes (but most of them completely modernized) but they are very good birds, at least they do not use a flying disaster like the F-35.
Syria operations surprised many western analysts that doubted Russia could mount such effective air campaign.
They do not have an airplane comparable to the F-22 but their advanced air defenses make the use of the Raptor very risky. I cannot even imagine the "psychological" and image hit that losing an F-22 would generate for the US.
Advancement in signal processing and sensor network environment are making stealth technology obsolete quite rapidly.
I'm surprised Russia did not arrange the "accidental" downing on an Israeli F-35 for that purpose....the Israeli are smart and they flying their F-35 well outside Syrian air space.
I do not agree that much hat Russian air force is questionable, sure they use some old planes (but most of them completely modernized) but they are very good birds, at least they do not use a flying disaster like the F-35.
Syria operations surprised many western analysts that doubted Russia could mount such effective air campaign.
They do not have an airplane comparable to the F-22 but their advanced air defenses make the use of the Raptor very risky. I cannot even imagine the "psychological" and image hit that losing an F-22 would generate for the US.
Advancement in signal processing and sensor network environment are making stealth technology obsolete quite rapidly.
I'm surprised Russia did not arrange the "accidental" downing on an Israeli F-35 for that purpose....the Israeli are smart and they flying their F-35 well outside Syrian air space.
This is hilarious, and a highlight among the usual drivel I read in this thread. Russian air force had a successful campaign against a rebel force that did not possess any air force or an effective anti-air weaponry. Wow, amazing! That means Russian/soviet fighters are as good as American? LOLOLOL
Upgrading 40 to 50 year old equipment isn't the same as our newer products. Not even close to the same level. You can add numbers to the names all you want, but Russian weapons are 2nd rate at best to western. Youtube propaganda videos notwithstanding...
Aging Turkish F-16s showed Russia what can happen if they get too cocky. Russian fighter jets would lose disastrously to the IAF if they even tried. 2 F-35s would beat any 4 of Russian aircraft head to head, any day or night. I'd bet my mortgage on that matchup. Israel is about 100-1 against Russian made fighter jets since 1972 and you think NOW its more even odds? Surrrrrre
Those jets are kind of pointless by now. Way too expensive and vulnerable, and risky for pilots. The future are unmanned jet drones, which are cheaper and faster without posing a health risk to the pilot.
People should not confuse the real world with a Top Gun movie.
Just looked it up, Russia does seem to have a new, advanced jet, the Sukhoi Su-57.
There are only 4 operational models of such 5th-generation jets, two from the US, one from China and the Su-57 from Russia.
I do not agree that much hat Russian air force is questionable, sure they use some old planes (but most of them completely modernized) but they are very good birds, at least they do not use a flying disaster like the F-35.
Syria operations surprised many western analysts that doubted Russia could mount such effective air campaign.
They do not have an airplane comparable to the F-22 but their advanced air defenses make the use of the Raptor very risky. I cannot even imagine the "psychological" and image hit that losing an F-22 would generate for the US.
Advancement in signal processing and sensor network environment are making stealth technology obsolete quite rapidly.
I'm surprised Russia did not arrange the "accidental" downing on an Israeli F-35 for that purpose....the Israeli are smart and they flying their F-35 well outside Syrian air space.
I won't question the ability of a Russian pilot in one of their aircraft, even older ones are very effective in some situations. What I do question is the support of frontal aviation. An example is the lack refueling aircraft, all they have is 19. In a war that is not a lot considering at any given time 6 of those will be down for maintenance. With time and an extended conflict attrition will kick in and soon they will have none. AWACS? Not enough either even with Beriev in the picture.
This is hilarious, and a highlight among the usual drivel I read in this thread. Russian air force had a successful campaign against a rebel force that did not possess any air force or an effective anti-air weaponry. Wow, amazing! That means Russian/soviet fighters are as good as American? LOLOLOL
And I've yet to see Murika in a fight with a professional, well equipped well supported military. Iraq doesn't count. Nor does Afghanistan. Iraqi tanks didn't even have SABOT rounds to fire at US Abrams. I did hear about a very old SAM-2 taking down an F-18 Hornet.
If you want to go comparing penis sizes I'll tell you this. In many respects it's about the pilots skills in the aircraft, not the aircraft.
This is hilarious, and a highlight among the usual drivel I read in this thread. Russian air force had a successful campaign against a rebel force that did not possess any air force or an effective anti-air weaponry. Wow, amazing! That means Russian/soviet fighters are as good as American? LOLOLOL
As Scrat already replied to your drivel, neither America had a fight with a peer competitor....last time the US fought against a enemy with substantial backing of Russian military hardware was either a, barely, draw (Korea) or a loss (Vietnam) but let's not digress...
Quote:
Upgrading 40 to 50 year old equipment isn't the same as our newer products.
True, sometimes old modernized it can actually be better given the F-35 experience and the rush to actually develop new version of the F-15....
Quote:
Aging Turkish F-16s showed Russia what can happen if they get too cocky. Russian fighter jets would lose disastrously to the IAF if they even tried. 2 F-35s would beat any 4 of Russian aircraft head to head, any day or night. I'd bet my mortgage on that matchup. Israel is about 100-1 against Russian made fighter jets since 1972 and you think NOW its more even odds? Surrrrrre
You are so funny and truly delusional...so Turkey "showed" to Russia huh?? This is the reason why Erdogan did prostrate in front of Putin apologizing for the incident?? That Turkey?? LOL
What about Israel keeping themselves well out of the Syrian air space?? That Israel??
I won't question the ability of a Russian pilot in one of their aircraft, even older ones are very effective in some situations. What I do question is the support of frontal aviation. An example is the lack refueling aircraft, all they have is 19. In a war that is not a lot considering at any given time 6 of those will be down for maintenance. With time and an extended conflict attrition will kick in and soon they will have none. AWACS? Not enough either even with Beriev in the picture.
They would need to depend on their AA defense in a big way.
Yes but Russia air force does not have the requirements of the US, all it cares is the near abroad...and, like you said, a conflict with Russia involved imply an extremely hostile EW environment.
Weapon system nowadays are part of an integrated network.....it is misleading to assess Russian air force independently.
What Russia can do in electronic warfare is still a big mystery. To me at least and most likely others.
Some notable incidents is when Russia jammed the GPS system over half of Norway and Sweden with the Murmansk BM system a few years ago and the incident where 8 Turkish F-16 fighters had their radars burned out by something (an experimental projected emp weapon?) in 2017 north of the Russian base in Syria.
Russians are also very good at hijacking drones and shooting them out of the sky.
And I've yet to see Murika in a fight with a professional, well equipped well supported military. Iraq doesn't count. Nor does Afghanistan. Iraqi tanks didn't even have SABOT rounds to fire at US Abrams. I did hear about a very old SAM-2 taking down an F-18 Hornet.
If you want to go comparing penis sizes I'll tell you this. In many respects it's about the pilots skills in the aircraft, not the aircraft.
Correct, you will never see America against a well equipped enemy. Instead we only face off with Soviet/Russian equipped enemies. Same with Israel.
As Scrat already replied to your drivel, neither America had a fight with a peer competitor....last time the US fought against a enemy with substantial backing of Russian military hardware was either a, barely, draw (Korea) or a loss (Vietnam) but let's not digress...
Israel, Turkey and America have all shot down how many Russian made aircraft since Vietnam? Vs the other way.
OK how about aircraft types still in service. Here you go:
F-16
76-1... oh but that was shot down by a French Mirage.
F-15
103-0
F-18
2-1 (maybe)
181 kills to one loss... Some of those kills were probably a few French made aircraft in between...
Quote:
Originally Posted by saturno_v
True, sometimes old modernized it can actually be better given the F-35 experience and the rush to actually develop new version of the F-15....
The F-35 is used for force projection. The F-15 is an interceptor. These are not the same role, that is the reason we have both. We could spend more money to use the F-35 as an interceptor but why do that when we have the F-15X. Your argument is like saying we have the B-52 so why do we need the B-2? Leave the military aerospace tech to us Californians...
The only way a Russian equipped adversary can stop our airforce is with a binding UN resolution.
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