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Thanks for the info about the Arctic Road Rally - that looks really cool. I don't think the TFL crew participated in that though. I understood it was just them in the Lighting and they had a second ICE/hybrid pickup that could bail them out if things really got bad. There are probably half a dozen videos they made covering this trip from the real time point of view, but this is an overall description video. It was done in mid-late summer - in July I believe.
I see... that's a different EV trip on the Dalton. I watched that video a few months ago. It was very interesting since the drivers had to improvise in order to charge the EV. I have watched several of the TFL (?) videos. Those guys are very informative.
On the EV rally I mentioned before, charging stations were placed along the way to allow for charging. They used diesel generators to supply electrical power.
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On another note, the Dalton Highway has amazing sceneries along the way, specially by mid September as the landscape changes color. Spruce remains green, but birch change to rust, orange, and yellow colors along the lowgrowth plants and grasses.
TFL did a series of videos last year where they drove a F-150 Lightning all the way up to Prudhoe Bay! There were some Flo chargers along the way, but those mostly petered out north of Fairbanks as I recall. They got creative and used some 240V plugs from campgrounds and someone's dryer plug at one point - they carried many adapters and were good at plug diplomacy. But they made it :-)
Yup.
TFL got there by putting two F-150s on a ferry in Seattle though. The second F-150 was the hybrid so they had a gas generator for when they needed to charge overnight. The Bolt is more impressive to me since he actually drove there without a gasoline generator following for recharging. No support crew, no big corporate sponsors footing the bill for semis to bring diesel generators out along the route. Just a dude in a Bolt with some cables stopping at RV parks to charge overnight by jerry rigging two 30 amp RV plugs to charge in less than three days.
It's kind of interesting that there's charges at all in AK. The only two ways I'd manage to make it would be by boat or flatbed, at least going off Plugshare. I see some stuff about a Bolt making it. Big ol' 500 mile stretch to get across with no chargers though. RV parks maybe, if there's a route with enough of those. If they're well placed only spending 2-3 nights at RV parks in your Bolt.
Found a write up. Interesting read, RV parks, adapters to convert two 30 amp to make one 50 amp charger so it doesn't take three days to charge. I think I'll stick to the flatbed or the boat myself.
Yes, that's an interesting story, thanks for sharing - quite an adventurous guy! I noticed him describing how he went from Vermont into Canada via Colorado, and explained he dropped down south because there were no chargers in the Dakotas... that was in 2020. I checked on PlugShare and it's just the main highway across each state, but there are now DC-fast chargers along the main route across each state these days - things really are improving pretty quickly on these charging networks.
I see... that's a different EV trip on the Dalton. I watched that video a few months ago. It was very interesting since the drivers had to improvise in order to charge the EV. I have watched several of the TFL (?) videos. Those guys are very informative.
On the EV rally I mentioned before, charging stations were placed along the way to allow for charging. They used diesel generators to supply electrical power.
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On another note, the Dalton Highway has amazing sceneries along the way, specially by mid September as the landscape changes color. Spruce remains green, but birch change to rust, orange, and yellow colors along the lowgrowth plants and grasses.
Agreed, I have watched a ton of TFL videos. The guys are pretty down to earth and practical, and when it comes to the great EV debate - they've had e.g. a Tesla and a Ford Lightning and are perfectly fine with EVs, but they've also had a e.g. a Jeep and a diesel RAM pickup and are fine with ICE vehicles too, and they're really not trying too hard to convince everyone either that EVs are awesome, or that they suck. That's the perspective that I want to hear.
Last edited by OutdoorLover; 01-24-2024 at 05:43 AM..
Yes, that's an interesting story, thanks for sharing - quite an adventurous guy! I noticed him describing how he went from Vermont into Canada via Colorado, and explained he dropped down south because there were no chargers in the Dakotas... that was in 2020. I checked on PlugShare and it's just the main highway across each state, but there are now DC-fast chargers along the main route across each state these days - things really are improving pretty quickly on these charging networks.
For sure. Eventually though you have to confront that there are no public charges in Alaska such that it's possible to drive an EV longer distances between cities using public charging. You need to rely on private charges at RV parks and private businesses or residents who let strangers charge at them. That or you do what TFL did and you bring a hybrid F150 up so you have a mobile generator for recharging your EV at night. For the lower 48 though that's not common. Montana to North Dakota is still an issue (non-Tesla). It's 320 miles from Billings to Dickinson, ND for example. Most EVs you would need to drop down to I-90 through SD and it's 230 miles from Billings to Gillette. That MT/ND/Wyoming gap is the biggest gap for chargers in the lower 48.
Even with the ferry it's not easy up in Alaska depending where. To Anchorage, for example, you'd use the Cross Gulf ferry which only runs for four months, two times a month in the summer. Maybe. Last year they cancelled it entirely, not enough staff, and '24 is still up in the air. For a gasoline car you could do the Mainline from Bellingham (Seattle) to Haines/Skagway (I'd do Skagway since it's a cool town to spend some time in). But.... most EVs can't make it the 330-350 miles between chargers so you're back to those RV parks and private businesses/residences to make it. The other issue is you're routinely looking at those 200 and 300+ mile stretches. With public EV chargers only working 60-70% of the time...
Ferry aint cheap anymore. The two times I've been to Alaska it was ferry in my 20s. I didn't take a car as, well, that was always expensive... but even passenger service now it's just cheaper to fly. Ferry is worth doing though at least once even though it's more expensive. It's no luxury cruise but you get some incredible views.
For sure. Eventually though you have to confront that there are no public charges in Alaska such that it's possible to drive an EV longer distances between cities using public charging. You need to rely on private charges at RV parks and private businesses or residents who let strangers charge at them. That or you do what TFL did and you bring a hybrid F150 up so you have a mobile generator for recharging your EV at night. For the lower 48 though that's not common. Montana to North Dakota is still an issue (non-Tesla). It's 320 miles from Billings to Dickinson, ND for example. Most EVs you would need to drop down to I-90 through SD and it's 230 miles from Billings to Gillette. That MT/ND/Wyoming gap is the biggest gap for chargers in the lower 48.
Even with the ferry it's not easy up in Alaska depending where. To Anchorage, for example, you'd use the Cross Gulf ferry which only runs for four months, two times a month in the summer. Maybe. Last year they cancelled it entirely, not enough staff, and '24 is still up in the air. For a gasoline car you could do the Mainline from Bellingham (Seattle) to Haines/Skagway (I'd do Skagway since it's a cool town to spend some time in). But.... most EVs can't make it the 330-350 miles between chargers so you're back to those RV parks and private businesses/residences to make it. The other issue is you're routinely looking at those 200 and 300+ mile stretches. With public EV chargers only working 60-70% of the time...
Ferry aint cheap anymore. The two times I've been to Alaska it was ferry in my 20s. I didn't take a car as, well, that was always expensive... but even passenger service now it's just cheaper to fly. Ferry is worth doing though at least once even though it's more expensive. It's no luxury cruise but you get some incredible views.
I led a backpacking trip in Alaska with some of my friends in grad school, and we got up there via the Alaskan Ferry from Seattle as well. That was over 30 years ago, and we slept in our tents on the fantail - there was an overhang which provided some shelter. The cabin tickets were pricey but the fantail camping was inexpensive, and at that age we certainly didn't mind - it was more comfortable than what we'd be facing in the coming weeks in the AK backcountry ;-). Agreed that the trip up the Inside Passage on the ferry was fantastic - very scenic and we saw lots of killer whales and bald eagles en-route.
Here are some articles, they seem to agree that EV insurance was much more expensive than ICE but that gap is slowly closing recently. I also see that the EV with the highest insurance cost is Tesla. Some reasons for higher insurance cost are:
"Electric vehicles tend to have newer and more updated technology, which can be costly to replace and difficult to source.
While the purchase cost of EVs has been gradually declining, these vehicles are still more expensive on average than comparable gas-powered vehicles. Because of the higher cost of replacement, carriers may charge more for full coverage, including comprehensive and collision coverage.
If your EV is involved in an accident, the high-voltage battery, which powers the electric motor, could be damaged and need replacing. Depending on your vehicle, battery-pack replacement can cost tens of thousands of dollars.
Parts for certain EVs may be limited due to small manufacturing processes. This can make the repair process notably more expensive and result in long delays.
Not all repair shops are equipped to work on EVs, so your vehicle may need to go to a special shop following an accident. This can be more costly for your insurance company."
It's important to note that traditionally gas cars have had 100 years to prefect the design, EV's have been around only around 10 years old or so. There a lot that needs to change to prefect the design. In my opinion, EV's have a long way to go to be a main stream car.
First the cost to refuel a EV vs. a gas car come in at $485 vs $1,117 per year. Looks like the EV is the winner hands down. But with EV costing an average of $4,600 more than than a gas car, your break even in gas saving is 7 years. If you sell it after 5, the EV is more costly.
Then there the cost of repairs, the claim is EV have less parts, to in theory, they should be cheaper to repair, but the issue if those few parts can get VERY pricey, not to mention with fewer mechanics qualified to work on them, equal higher labor costs.
Have a battery issue, that be 20k to fix, that be cash or charge?
I can go into any autozone and get parts to fix my gas car myself, have a tesla, use your app and maybe you part will show up some time in the next 6 months. maybe not.
Until I can walk into any parts store and get the parts I need to fix my EV and have a manual to allow me to do the repairs myself, you can keep your damn EV.
It's important to note that traditionally gas cars have had 100 years to prefect the design, EV's have been around only around 10 years old or so. There a lot that needs to change to prefect the design. In my opinion, EV's have a long way to go to be a main stream car.
First the cost to refuel a EV vs. a gas car come in at $485 vs $1,117 per year. Looks like the EV is the winner hands down. But with EV costing an average of $4,600 more than than a gas car, your break even in gas saving is 7 years. If you sell it after 5, the EV is more costly.
My first full EV, a 2020 Bolt, cost $25k new with no government incentives. That's price parity with a similarly sized GTI or MINI Cooper S that have similar power outputs and performance. I was saving money on fueling costs immediately vs buying wither of those two cars. My current 2023 example, due to the trade in value, was actually well under $20k without government incentives. So no, simply being an EV does not make it more costly.
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Have a battery issue, that be 20k to fix, that be cash or charge?
With an 8 year, 100k mile warranty on the batteries (10 year/150k in California) most folks will not be replacing a battery during their ownership. Considering modern, thermally managed, liquid heated/cooled EV batteries have a lifespan of ~2000 charge cycles, in a car with a 250 mile range, that's 500k miles before the battery is unsuitable to use in a car. For most EVs, the car will wear out long before the battery does. And IF it needs to be replaced it can be replaced with a rebuilt or good used for far cheaper, just like you wouldn't replace your 10-15 year old gas car's engine with a factory crate engine if IT goes bad at that timeframe. BTW, the cost of the batteries have been dropping dramatically over the last 10 years, starting out at $100 per kWh of capacity in 2010, to $300 per kWh capacity in 2020 and about $130 per kWh capacity currently. That means if I were to go to GM to get a new battery for my Bolt, they are making money off of selling it retail for $13k. Which is about what new factory crate engine is for a Camry or VW.
I can go into any autozone and get parts to fix my gas car myself, have a tesla, use your app and maybe you part will show up some time in the next 6 months. maybe not.
I take it you haven't bought parts for any newer car for the last 5 years. With the pandemic and supply chain problems, parts for ANY new car have been hard to come by and overpriced. Gas cars from many manufacturers have been sitting in dealer service bays waiting months for simple parts.
But let me ask you this question, since you are talking about Tesla. Let's look at the Tesla Model 3P and its closest competitor, the current BMW M340i or M3. Are you able to walk into AutoZone and get parts for either of those quicky and cheaply and can you fix them yourself just because they happen to be powered by gasoline? I think not.
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Until I can walk into any parts store and get the parts I need to fix my EV and have a manual to allow me to do the repairs myself, you can keep your damn EV.
Hobbyists are actually doing that already. But again, I note you are railing about EVs and not other new gas powered cars that you aren't going to be able to do that with, either. So it has nothing to do with being an EV or not, simply your own limitations.
It’s been awhile since we’ve seen the $20k claim. I figured that one finally died. Oh well.
Good deal. Hyundai is 45k!
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