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New technology as it comes in can be a bleeding edge if one jumps too early. I’m older so need less drama in my life.
There are always people that will want the latest and greatest and willing to pay inflated prices for it, but not put much thought behind it. Tesla just recalled 2 million vehicles. Not to mention they were caught lying about ranges they promoted. And batteries constantly changing, type and size. Years from now when you need a battery, will it be available or even fit. They're not making these spare batteries and have them sitting the shelf. Even the Ioniq 5 battery replacement can cost $60,000. Hyundai does not stock spare batteries. One will have to be shipped from Korea. It will exceed to cost of the car. Insurance company will total the vehicle just because of the battery. Do your research before you jump to quickly to buy. Or like most, bite your tongue and cross your fingers. Car companies are counting on YOU to be their guinea pig, beyond what their testing R & D found.
And what does the body of the email conclude? Headlines are only good for whipping up emotion.
Here's the (link). The report is vaguely inconclusive. I am nervous about posting since I don't know if it's available to non-AAA members and I got rapped for posting excerpts of a state administrative order.
Unfortunately like most articles nowadays, they crafted the headline to capture eyes and generate clicks, but then buried the conclusion way down at the bottom:
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When are electric cars really “cleaner” than gas cars? Turns out it only 1.4 to 1.9 years.
Even the Ioniq 5 battery replacement can cost $60,000. Hyundai does not stock spare batteries.
Wrong on both counts (unless you're at a dumb dealership in Canada). The batteries are $24k and $36k from Hyundai in the US (depending on which size option you have), in stock, but can be repaired as they are modular and each module is $1100. And in stock. The warranty is for 8 years/100k miles (10 years/150k miles in California) so you probably won't be replacing the battery in your ownership period. And like gas engines done' immediately die when their warranty is up, batteries don't either, so they should outlast the car they are in. Unless damaged by an accident, in which case either your insurance company picks up the tab for a rebuilt or good used one, ort you or they repair the battery with a new, cheap module.
I'm soooo tires of people like you repeating the same misinformation all the time.
With an 8 year, 100k mile warranty on the batteries (10 year/150k in California) most folks will not be replacing a battery during their ownership.
My car is 11 years old and has 223k, well past the battery warrant if it was a EV. Also, if your battery fails on a car out of battery warranty, few will pay the cost to replace it; thus there will be few EV's ten years of older road.
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Originally Posted by H8PJs
I take it you haven't bought parts for any newer car for the last 5 years. With the pandemic and supply chain problems, parts for ANY new car have been hard to come by and overpriced. Gas cars from many manufacturers have been sitting in dealer service bays waiting months for simple parts.
The part shortages are not nearly as bad as they were in 22 and 23. Most backlogs have been addressed, but a few brands, like Land Rover, continue to have issues. As long as your willing to use generic parts, instead of official brand parts it's a non-issue.
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Originally Posted by H8PJs
But let me ask you this question, since you are talking about Tesla. Let's look at the Tesla Model 3P and its closest competitor, the current BMW M340i or M3. Are you able to walk into AutoZone and get parts for either of those quicky and cheaply and can you fix them yourself just because they happen to be powered by gasoline?
Nope, luxury car parts are generally not available at auto part stores. But it's important to note that BMW only has a 1.7% share in the US car market. And I wouldn't buy a BMW either, gas or electric.
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Originally Posted by H8PJs
Hobbyists are actually doing that already.
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So it has nothing to do with being an EV or not, simply your own limitations.
I will admit it, without a manual, my repair skills ARE limited. GM makes a Volt repair manual you can buy for $39, Tesla now offers the repair manuals absolutely free, down from a subscription cost of $3,187 a year, but they raised the price of diagnostic software to 3k a year and have non-standard OBDII ports. Thanks.
This is mechanic level stuff anyway, all cars that require advance diagnostic troubleshooting require OBD scanners that cost thousand of dollars, not something for the back yard car hobbyist. I have an OBD scanner that cost about $200, if it requires more diagnoses than that, I'd bring the car to a professional to fix.
I don't hate EV's, I just think they are not ready for main stream market, the Solid state battery might be a game changer.
“They’re not ready for mainstream” (and its related variations) is becoming so tiresome. Sales continue to grow every quarter. The mainstream is now. Full replacement? No. But should one choose to do so, there are offerings that meet or exceed the needs of the vast majority of drivers.
I drove 120 miles today… a Saturday, between 2.5 hours of work and a little bowling with my family. My miles FAR exceed the average American driver. I never charge in public, pay $9 for a “fill up” and have yet to identify a single downside over 45,000+ miles in just days shy of 2 years of ownership.
If your needs exceed mine, I’d love to hear about it.
Correction: 25 months. It was 1/25 not 2/25 that I bought it.
My car is 11 years old and has 223k, well past the battery warrant if it was a EV. Also, if your battery fails on a car out of battery warranty, few will pay the cost to replace it; thus there will be few EV's ten years of older road.
The part shortages are not nearly as bad as they were in 22 and 23. Most backlogs have been addressed, but a few brands, like Land Rover, continue to have issues. As long as your willing to use generic parts, instead of official brand parts it's a non-issue.
Nope, luxury car parts are generally not available at auto part stores. But it's important to note that BMW only has a 1.7% share in the US car market. And I wouldn't buy a BMW either, gas or electric.
I will admit it, without a manual, my repair skills ARE limited. GM makes a Volt repair manual you can buy for $39, Tesla now offers the repair manuals absolutely free, down from a subscription cost of $3,187 a year, but they raised the price of diagnostic software to 3k a year and have non-standard OBDII ports. Thanks.
This is mechanic level stuff anyway, all cars that require advance diagnostic troubleshooting require OBD scanners that cost thousand of dollars, not something for the back yard car hobbyist. I have an OBD scanner that cost about $200, if it requires more diagnoses than that, I'd bring the car to a professional to fix.
I don't hate EV's, I just think they are not ready for main stream market, the Solid state battery might be a game changer.
Out of warranty doesn't mean that the vehicle (and battery) will have failed. That's true for warranties regardless of powertrain type.
There will be fewer older EVs on the road not just due to attrition which happens with vehicles of all powertrain types, but also because *new* EV sales have been growing rapidly just about every year and is still several years at least from complete new vehicle market saturation. I think the question is how long are EVs meant to last rather than how many older ones are on the road. Studies done so far seem to point to EVs lasting a good long while even for EVs that aren't that impressive by today's standard. I think one thing to note especially is that the oldest EVs from a decade or longer ago didn't have an active thermal management system, so they generally degraded in capacity faster and had very little capacity in the first place compared to your average EV today, and yet even those seem to be lasting for quite a while.
Now that active thermal management is by default expected in new EVs and the average capacity is about triple what it used to be, the overall life time cycle for these vehicles should be even better than your first generation Nissan Leaf which are surprisingly still around in large proportions today. Remember, one of the key markers for longevity is how many duty cycles the batteries can go through. One duty cycle is going from empty to full to empty again. The average range for new EVs last year was 270 miles EPA rating and the original Leaf was 75 miles EPA rated range, so it takes 3.6x duty cycles of the first gen Leaf to match just one cycle of an average new EV today and apparently the vast majority of first gen Nissan Leaf vehicles are still in use today. I think if anything, the stats for old EVs have shown this to be a reliable and mature technology even in this relatively short time period.
The game changer was the lithium-ion batteries and they're doing quite well and have already reached pretty good sales worldwide with about 16% of global new vehicle sales being plug-ins and about 10% of US new vehicle sales being plug-ins.
My car is 11 years old and has 223k, well past the battery warrant if it was a EV. Also, if your battery fails on a car out of battery warranty, few will pay the cost to replace it; thus there will be few EV's ten years of older road.
So did your engine fail immediately out of warranty? no. So why assume the battery will? That's just dumb.
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Nope, luxury car parts are generally not available at auto part stores. But it's important to note that BMW only has a 1.7% share in the US car market. And I wouldn't buy a BMW either, gas or electric.
the point is, you don't go into gas car brand threads and rail against that like you do in EV threads. It's hypocritical at best.
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This is mechanic level stuff anyway, all cars that require advance diagnostic troubleshooting require OBD scanners that cost thousand of dollars, not something for the back yard car hobbyist. I have an OBD scanner that cost about $200
So which is it? $2000 or $200? I have a $45 OBD2 bluetooth dongle that I use various software packages (ranging from free to $50) to diagnose various car types (including my EV, though I won't work on it until it's out of warranty).
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don't hate EV's, I just think they are not ready for main stream market,
The mainstream market doesn't work on their own cars now, and generally keeps their cars for less time than the battery warranty lasts, anyhow. The mainstream market just drives their cars to and fro, and often doesn't even do the recommended maintenance, which will kill a gas powered car. EVs are definitely able to take over the commuter market already, with vastly lower fuel and maintenance costs.
Apple has ended its Titan effort to build a car for the EV market. That effort started in 2014 and is now over.
The staff will be redeployed to other jobs at Apple, probably Apple's efforts to build AI into its smart phones.
There is no shortage of EV manufacturing plants; no need for Apple to duplicate that and slug it out with other makers.
It's not a total loss. One success of the effort is CarPlay software that is built into 98% of all new cars, not just EVs.
My opinion is Apple can make more money selling software to car makers than it can by actually making an EV of its own. This is how Levi Strauss made a fortune; he sold denim jeans to gold miners instead of going into the gold fields himself to pan for gold.
At one time Elon Musk thought of selling Tesla to Apple, but it never happened.
It's a new industry which will move forward in fits and starts; we'll see new players enter and some firms will drop out along the way. For sure it'll be a bumpy ride for the rest of the 2020s.
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