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The solution is to make everyone competitive regardless of race. Not to let non-competitive races slide into positions in elite schools that they did not earn. It's not an easy solution, but it's the the only long-term solution. Raise the quality of education for those who generally under-perform.
Exactly.... Pray tell, what happens when you start compromising your entrance requirements in the name of "fairness"?
Well, what happens next is that these kids that were admitted in order to be "fair", cannot keep up. At first, perhaps, the school can simply kick out a student or two who make it clear that they cannot meet the high standards of an elite school, but then its only a matter of time before people start to take notice that its the kids they made an exception for that are failing out of these schools and we start to question whether the instruction they are receiving is "biased" or somehow "inadequate for their needs" or whether they are being treated "fairly" within the school.
And so the compromising continues and after a decade or two this once "elite" school finds itself no better than the normal public high school 5 miles down the road....
No people it gets no more fair than this: THIS IS THE STANDARD YOU MUST MEET TO GET INTO THIS SCHOOL! THE STANDARD DOESN'T CARE WHAT RACE YOU ARE OR HOW MUCH MONEY YOUR PARENTS MAKE! YOU MEET THE STANDARD AND YOU ARE IN! THE STANDARD WILL NOT BE LOWERED TO MEET YOU!
Bull****. I went to a public high school that is in the top 10 of the US and we were the best because we were in an extremely liberal town with very high taxes that paid for are school to be pimping. Like them or not, most if not all of the best public schools in the country are found in liberal areas because education is the liberal's bread and butter. A town full of liberals and ex-hippies that are now professionals will throw money at the public schools.
The grades kids got didn't matter. A ton of us were cutting class and smoking grass, it was the poor kids and minorities who had to study so they could afford to go to college (scholarships). University recruiters used to come from all over the country to entice us. They used to fill the cafeteria and give us free swag.
I am not sure what you mean by elite so I will be specific. I mean schools like Thomas Jefferson in VA, High Tech and biotech in NJ, and the science magnet in Dallas.
I do not know of any public elites in MA so I am not sure what top ten you are referring to but there are multiple examples of elites in "red states". Also all schools have recruiters come to the school. Even mediocre ones.
Bull****. I went to a public high school that is in the top 10 of the US and we were the best because we were in an extremely liberal town with very high taxes that paid for are school to be pimping. Like them or not, most if not all of the best public schools in the country are found in liberal areas because education is the liberal's bread and butter. A town full of liberals and ex-hippies that are now professionals will throw money at the public schools.
It has everything to do with wealth and next to nothing to do with politics, at least on the conservative-liberal spectrum. The highest-wealth people (generally those with graduate/professional degrees) are certainly associated with liberal viewpoints, but this is a correlation and not a causation. Look at any 50-state compendium ranking America's best public high schools. There is no shortage in representation from red states.
I smell a troll trolling. I went to an "elite" public high school. LOL I had to take exams to get in and so should any student who attends. End of story.
I just saw the entry about cheating. The only time I've ever seen anyone cheating in school was two Indian students in a pre calculus class. I actually alerted the teacher, since I had studied my ASS off for the exam (and only got a B by the way), and he did nothing about it.
Getting into an "elite" school is great, but it is not the only way to be successful. I am sure students who are home-schooled, in private school or in less dazzling schools can be successful as well.
I smell a troll trolling. I went to an "elite" public high school. LOL I had to take exams to get in and so should any student who attends. End of story.
I just saw the entry about cheating. The only time I've ever seen anyone cheating in school was two Indian students in a pre calculus class. I actually alerted the teacher, since I had studied my ASS off for the exam (and only got a B by the way), and he did nothing about it.
Getting into an "elite" school is great, but it is not the only way to be successful. I am sure students who are home-schooled, in private school or in less dazzling schools can be successful as well.
The original story has to do with the fact that the department of education in NYC wants to push kids getting into these schools on criteria other than the exams.
The cheating entry was from a story I read about the problem. I don't know when you went to these schools, but even in my *non-elite* high school, there was not a lot of cheating when I went. Now, however, cheating is rampant in lots of schools. First of all, this has to do with the pressure for grades. Second of all, it has to do with the ease of cheating (plagiarism on the internet, cellphones for cribbing answers and for texting them to your friends, etc.)
I was reading an interesting article about how a majority of the students getting into the elite PUBLIC High Schools in New York City (as well as elsewhere) are now mostly Asian. The main way the students can get into these schools- with their extremely challenging academics- is by scoring very highly in a standardized tests.
The Asian students who want to get into these elite High Schools will study 12-14 hours a day and take all kinds of prep classes to help them score high on the tests. FREE prep classes are available for Black and Hispanic students but they rarely enroll. Their advocates say they should be allowed to get into these elite PUBLIC High Schools based on their grades or teacher recommendations even if they score poorly on the entrance tests. Critics say that a good GPA or strong recommendations by teachers from a poor middle school does not really show they are strong enough students to survive the elite High School's academics. The percentage of students who are White is dropping also as many white students can't compete with the Asians who study 14 hours a day.
Critics say that if you let Non Asian students who score below the mean on the entrance tests they will have to lower academic standards and the elite students will suffer. But other critics say it is not fair to only let kids in who score well on the test. What do you think?
Well lets be honest the elite public schools have set a standard and that standard is best on not only gpa, recommendations, but also standardized test scores. Within the Asian community they are not necessarily smarter but very seldom do not push education. They come from a culture where if you get a 95 then should have gotten a 100. They believe the better and higher your education is the better you are as person. I support keeping the standard as it is and looking at why those other groups cannot compete.
I am not surprised though they cannot in all honesty. Asians usually are the top academic acheivers in math and science, not to mention American born and raised students compared with their foreign counterparts, education wise we fail miserably.
What no one here really admists is that the entrance to the NYC specialized high schools is just a totally terrible way to choose students, regardless or any racial factor. I've said this a few times in the NYC forums and I'll say it here again:
Not a single other elite public high schoolin America chooses its student body SOLELY on one test, with no regard for any other criteria. Not a one. All consider something else--grades, socio-economic status, recommendations, obstacles overcome, etc. NYC is the only place where you can be a flaming a**hole and still attend the top school because you aced a test. Every other elite public high schoolin the nation has long since realized that picking students only on teh basis of one test is a crock.
And of course, no elite college in America has such rigid admissions criteria either. Harvard and Yale, for example, turn down plenty of kids with perfect SAT scores every year because they know that there are lower-scoring students who would be better studnts, add more to the campus, and might be likely to go on to great things after graduation.
The tragedy is that people's racial hysteria has blinded them to the fact that NYC just has a lousy way of picking kids for their top public high schools. A more holistic admissions process would garner both smart, academically talented kids AND racially diversify the student body. But that would mean that admissions committees would have to make subjective choices and in the current atmosphere, they're afraid to do that and to be held accounrtable. (And no one has the cojones to lobby for repeal of the state law that mandates the use of ONLY test scores for admissions)It's a shame that this cowardice is preventing NYC's top high schools from becoming the best they could be.
Well lets be honest the elite public schools have set a standard and that standard is best on not only gpa, recommendations, but also standardized test scores. Within the Asian community they are not necessarily smarter but very seldom do not push education. They come from a culture where if you get a 95 then should have gotten a 100. They believe the better and higher your education is the better you are as person. I support keeping the standard as it is and looking at why those other groups cannot compete.
I am not surprised though they cannot in all honesty. Asians usually are the top academic acheivers in math and science, not to mention American born and raised students compared with their foreign counterparts, education wise we fail miserably.
I cannot agree more. (though in arts as well) Though only exposed to the Asian culture for about a decade (and have a SO and daughter that are From the Far East), in one sense I rejoice that I was not in school with her, for even though I went to some of the best schools in the US, and got all A's, they would have kicked my b*tt... granted my sample size is relatively small. Not sure where all the self-motivation comes from (though when we were kids it was just an expectation from our parents, and we didn't go play video games, we figured out how they worked).
Just learning the parenting skills, but when she phones home crying, saying "I only got a 95 on an AP chemistry test", I feel a little awkward.
But back to the topic at hand: yes, education-wise the US fails miserably. Plenty of blame to go around, however; parents, students, teachers would be my top 3 choices. JMHO
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