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Old 07-12-2013, 09:58 AM
 
Location: The Triad
34,100 posts, read 83,042,686 times
Reputation: 43676

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Quote:
Originally Posted by AJNEOA View Post
Because not everyone is the same in terms of motivation, capability, intelligence, etc.
They have to be "the same" to know that a chicken will feed four better than seven?
They have to be "the same" to know that a bit of latex goes a long way?
Apparently I give them greater credit for being able to figure this out than you do.

What I don't want to give them is motivation to not even consider the question.
Let alone to give them the increment in goods & services required to maintain a home.

I want them to have that home and to be able to pay for it on their own.
If that requires having 300 such homes vs 1000 dysfunctional... so be it.

Quote:
There's a large difference in a low skilled position in a...
The nature of the work is really quite immaterial to the market value of the worker.
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Old 07-12-2013, 10:12 AM
 
5,546 posts, read 6,882,299 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MrRational View Post

The nature of the work is really quite immaterial to the market value of the worker.
Agreed, but the nature of the business, what it does and the internal environment does IMO.
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Old 07-12-2013, 07:55 PM
 
5,500 posts, read 10,527,001 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cheapcharly View Post
wait for fatca kicking in 2014.

you will feel your pain. usa companies are leaving usa already.
I bet apple is preparing to get everything out.

usa citizen with 2 nationalities are already leaving the sinking boat. I did already...

get out before it s too late.
get married to Mexican, at least you can stay in Mexico and enjoy the show when usa government will all eat you alive.
Apple actually just brought some manufacturing back to the US.
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Old 07-12-2013, 08:07 PM
 
6,326 posts, read 6,598,362 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shaker281 View Post
LIFE forces you to work. If you lived alone in the wilderness you would be forced to work for food, clothing and shelter. You would be working 16 hour days just to survive. No Sundays off or cellphones or cable TV either. Instead of paying taxes, you could simply die when you became unable to fend for yourself.

As far as money having no value, you could ask to be paid in gold or food or whatever you believe has value, it would just be much less convenient.
First, more "primitive" people don't spend nearly as much time as you imagine to survive (I know that personally, not theoretically). Second, imagine let's say a wheat producing tribe and meat producing nomads exchanging meat-for-wheat and wheat-for-meat to survive. They can do so indefinitely, they don't need to overproduce, they don't need to wage marketing wars, they don't need lots of things you cannot imagine life without.

Now, imagine that their land was occupied by a culture that uses money to facilitate extortion of tribute and division of labor. Now the very same tribes must find a customer with money who would buy their goods, in order for them to get enough of money to pay their taxes off. Savages must work much more just to survive compared to their formerly money-less culture. Actually, they need to work much more compared to the savages who can pay their tribute in meat & wheat.

Now, imagine a banker coming into a picture who loans certain amount of coins to the tribesmen to build let's say a bigger horse drawn carriage to deliver meat&wheat to the city markets, to get money, to pay taxes. Banker charges interest. To pay off interest savages must find the ways to boost production i.e. they must work even more. Once interest is in the picture, it's get big or get out world, it's rat race 24/7 something that "primitive" tribes can't imagine.

If that doesn't convince you. You should know that Europe, for example, had rich and diverse folk cultures (customs, food, clothes, songs, etc., etc., etc.), before the onset of industrialism and the age of money. Those were poor peasants who paid their tribute in labor and goods. Sometimes they didn't have enough to eat because of weather, disease or wars (being too prolific didn't help either). They didn't have lots of things, but one thing they had was time on their hands to create and most importantly practice all those customs and their cultures. Then peasants turned industrial wage slaves who use abstract concept of money to survive. It's been roughly 500 years since onset of industrial revolution. Do you know a single, just one, authentic "culture" created by the monetized industrial workers of all collar colors (or a culture created by the for-profit monetized farmers, for that matter)? There is none, partially it's because between working, getting ready to work (since the ripe age of 3), vegging out in front of TV because of mental&physical exhaustion and self-medicating using alcohol, drugs and Prozac they have neither time nor mental energy to create (and practice) authentic cultures.

Last edited by RememberMee; 07-12-2013 at 09:00 PM..
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Old 07-12-2013, 10:27 PM
 
Location: Metro Detroit, Michigan
29,837 posts, read 24,937,877 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gatornation View Post
Apple actually just brought some manufacturing back to the US.
Many attribute this to the fact that Apple has TONS of free cash sitting idle. Investors don't like this type of thing. So, Apple was forced to find a way to burn some of that excess capital. Since they don't seem too interested in developing cutting edge concepts, this might explain why some limited production is being brought back. For the sizable profit margin obtained through selling macbooks (macbook air I believe), they can very well afford to manufacture their computers here.

This reshoring might also be explained by the many benefits of just in time manufacturing. By making just enough of their product to satisfy current and expected short term demand, they can maintain slim inventory volumes. At the same time, they can ramp up production if needed by manufacturing domestically. Many manufactures favor JIT, particularly those that manufacture big ticket items like automobiles. For things like $20 desk fans, JIT is rarely a practical option.
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Old 07-13-2013, 08:31 AM
 
Location: World
4,204 posts, read 4,694,986 times
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Things have stabilised in worse stage. People are now used to it.
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Old 07-13-2013, 08:56 AM
 
Location: Sector 001
15,947 posts, read 12,302,396 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by andywire View Post
More temps now than ever. Same amount of actual jobs as we had about a decade ago. Larger workforce available, much of it due to legal and illegal immigration. Each worker is more productive than ever, which is a benefit to big business and manufacturers alike. Things are great, if you're at the top of the food chain. Stocks have done extremely well, but that is more a benefit to the leisure class. Not so much for the average American who derives the majority of their income from wages. My 401k made a hefty return, but that doesn't mean I have more spending money available.

Things seem quite stagnant for the majority. I work in manufacturing and I don't think it's been this busy for years. The downside is the majority of those workers are now working for a reduced hourly wage. Skilled workers are earning about the same, with a few earning a bit more. Many guys are earning a big chunk of their plunder from OT, which is often quite abundant. Normally, increased production demand is a big benefit for the masses, but these days, we produce so much with so few workers. Considering that about 8% of the workforce works in a manufacturing related occupations, this resurgence is not leading to a notable "trickle down" that one would see decades before.

This... the upper middle class posters in the 'investing' forums are cheerleaders over how great things are because the stock market is up but the reality of the situation is the average person does more work for less money than ever before and to top if off they can't afford to buy homes in many areas because all this funny money from the top few percent and Ben Bernake have blown huge bubbles in the real estate and stock markets and made 'assets' expensive to purchase.

Savers continue to be punished, debtors rewarded. Like some poster put it.... the ticket to wealth is 'leverage' .. and then just filing bankruptcy if it doesn't work out and trying again.

Despite this abundance of funny money businesses are squeezed to produce everything cheaper, faster, with better efficiency all the time.. just look at today's matchstick homes, industrial animal farming where they are kept in cages and treated like property.. pretty much everything is made to be disposable.. except vehicles which are arguably much better than in the past but even automakers tend to skimp in certain areas to save a few bucks, like GM's notorious intake gaskets that fail all the time.

Also, even high priced 'quality' items are now being made in China/Taiwan. Pretty much all road bikes are made overseas now, even $5000 ones.
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Old 07-13-2013, 09:05 AM
 
Location: Upstate NY 🇺🇸
36,754 posts, read 14,844,206 times
Reputation: 35584
To put it simply, QE is driving the stock market, so it's an illusion that will end when Bernanke's jettisoned.
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Old 07-13-2013, 09:18 AM
 
Location: Western North Carolina
8,054 posts, read 10,647,775 times
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Part of the problem is in the huge switch from the prevalance of lower skilled manufacturing jobs (such as running a textile loom, etc.) to lower skill requirement service based jobs (such as retail, restaurant and hospitality jobs, etc.).

What I see in my town are a lot of people that would be doing alright if there were manufacturing jobs where all they had to do was show up for work and do a repetative, manual process each day in a plant or mill for wages (the jobs that were mostly sent overseas). Many of them do not, however, possess the social skills, or present themselves in such a way to successfully secure a service job where they have to interact successfully with customers/the public and clients or a company on a daily basis.
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Old 07-13-2013, 12:22 PM
 
5,500 posts, read 10,527,001 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by montanamom View Post
Part of the problem is in the huge switch from the prevalance of lower skilled manufacturing jobs (such as running a textile loom, etc.) to lower skill requirement service based jobs (such as retail, restaurant and hospitality jobs, etc.).

What I see in my town are a lot of people that would be doing alright if there were manufacturing jobs where all they had to do was show up for work and do a repetative, manual process each day in a plant or mill for wages (the jobs that were mostly sent overseas). Many of them do not, however, possess the social skills, or present themselves in such a way to successfully secure a service job where they have to interact successfully with customers/the public and clients or a company on a daily basis.
Tell your friends and neighbors to buy American. Instead of going to some chain that treats employees poorly go to a local restaurant that sources from local growers. Americans vote daily with their purchases to keep jobs out of the US.
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