Are the Greeks being flat out selfish and entitled? (complaint, debt, borrow)
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I guess this is OK to post here since I am basically coming at this as an investor.
I'm not an expert at this and only know what is reported but it looks like the Greeks are basically asking the rest of Europe and by extension, even the U.S., to bail them financially out because they are not only so selfish but also feel entitled to be bailed out by other countries to support their lazy lifestyle.
Am I being too harsh here?
Is there more to this?
Will I as a U.S. bondholder and investor be affected by this madness?
No I don't think so. Much fault lies with the government who practiced life employment, early retirement, big pensions, etc.
As revenues shrunk they did nothing. Also involvement with the likes of GS, JPM and BofA (derivatives) and access to easy money with low interest rates didn't help.
But you can only put the squeeze on the common worker for so long. You cannot expect the worker class to pay for all the wrong doings of the government.
Compare them to us here in America. Is the working class responsible for the government spending that is putting us further into debt ? Yet we will be the ones responsible for paying it all back.
Yes, I think the Greeks are being flat-out selfish and entitled. Over the past several years we have seen various European countries such as France, Germany, and Great Britain (but not limited to them) make adjustments to their national pension plans and to their public spending in an attempt to bring things under control. But the Greeks waited too long and only made those adjustments under emergency conditions and under duress, which means that the adjustments are fairly draconian as the imbalances were so large (partly because their entitlements such as early retirements being considered "normal" were just so horribly out of line). People just do not want to give up what they are acustomed to having and which they have come to think of as "normal". Not only the Greeks, but we humans in general, are so often self-centered and short-sighted. But they are especially so, and there is now hell to pay for them. It's sad all the way around.
It's also sad for the (primarily German) taxpayers who are being asked to bail them out. Sometimes I think it would have been better to just kick Greece out of the Eurozone, accept the disruption and losses, and be done with it. Greece never should have been admitted to the Eurozone in the first place. Sometimes mistakes come back to haunt us big time.
Its human nature to be selfish, and to do as The Greeks are doing. They are a lot like Wall St. Goldman Sachs "sold" $26 trillion worth of equity to the US gov't (me and you) for $62 trillion, meaning their true balance sheet was underwater $36 trillion, and left to their own bank account, they would have been liquidated. During the years they built up this horrific cash position, they paid out a big chunk of this dubious volume as employee bonuses/commissions! Notice we were unable to claw back these ill gotten gains. Just like Greece, they were fat and happy having others pay for their mistakes.
So I find it humorous watching our "investors" lament the foolishness of the Greek financial decisions, as our investors (I.e. the Emperor) has no clothes.
I've noticed a pattern among the Greeks when this debt crisis is discussed that I find "interesting". When asked why the country is in financial trouble, Greeks will blame their elected politicians. According to them, their politicians are a bunch of "crooks and thieves". Seldom do I hear individual Greeks talk about the low retirement ages in their country or the other benefits their state has granted them. Or maybe, the Greek populace turned a blind eye to politicians who were stealing the country blind, so long as they got their benefits?
Greece is a parliamentary democracy. I haven't heard any accusations that the people are not allowed to vote and change governments. So, for me the complaints that "its the politicians who did this to us" ring hollow. In life, one has to learn to differentiate between "explanations" and "excuses".
I see the Greeks mostly complaining and making excuses. The truth is that I am really sorry that things have come to this. When Greece was allowed to join the EU, what was occurring was that big, wealthier countries were subsidizing it to an extent. Being allowed to go on the Euro, allowed Greece to borrow money. That money could have been used to finance factories, businesses, industries, tourist developments on the Aegean Sea. All of these activities would have helped the Greek people build a modern economy which would have gradually improved their standard of living. Something sustainable could have been created. As it is, the money was borrowed and than squandered on a bunch of things that provided short run benefits, but was destined to collapse.
Whether Greece stays in the Eurozone or not, the financial crisis that occurred is ultimately going to harm the youngest generations in the country the most. Greece blew a great opportunity.
Greece is likely the canary in the coal mine. Some of the European countries were able to work out of the economic disaster of WWII. Greece was not. Jobs were not forthcoming, political factions grew in power, and anarchists grew into a larger force than elsewhere, perhaps because government was failing the average citizen.
What does a government that cannot entice business and jobs for the people do to stay in power? It either lets people starve or begins to set-up infrastructure to keep pressure off it by the use of support programs. Early retirement is a great way to "create" jobs by reducing the active labor force. Requiring years of college to get a job does something similar.
Right now, much of the rest of the west is still riding the wave created by industry and the factory system. Movements of jobs to low cost labor areas like China and India have started the west in general down the slope the Greece slid.
As robotics continue to grow, and adaptive computers begin to control robotic systems, more and more jobs in the west will be removed. As worker costs continue to rise, there will come a point where businesses will make the financial choice to go almost completely robotics, or go out of business.
If you couple population growth, the reduction in jobs, and the continuing medical and religious imperatives to save the lives of children in countries that have no means of supporting them as adults, you will eventually have a world of countries trying to do much like Greece - hold onto power by buying people off. The alternatives are messy wars, starvation, and thinning by disease.
The Greeks spawn from eastern Orthodoxy - They really don't believe in this Catholic stuff if you slave away all your life keeping the rich rich...That you will get your reward in heaven...That you get paradise when you are dead...There has never been a report back from the other side - from the dead.
The Greeks want their paradise now...and why not? If they can rebel against their masters and get away with having a little heaven on earth - more power to them...Let Germany pay - they got off the hook much to early as far as what took place back in 1939...They destroyed all of Europe. The UE is Hitlers belated dream come true. National Socialism run by an elite bunch of girly parasites.
If I had my way I would get the Germans to pay for the next couple of generations. The Greeks have the right idea - what is the purpose to life if you have to work to keep that 1% that rule the roost living like gods on earth?
Greece was the begining of real civilization - Democracy! They also were the creators of mans first great works of art...If it were not for this civilization Rome would look like old soviet Russian. I would say that the decendants of the great masters of the worlds best system of living have earned their stripes...Let the Greeks relax...they earned it. As for the rest of us that resent anyone that enjoys their life and does not grasp the real concept of quality of life - TO BAD? We expect the clever Greeks to be dragged down to our level...I hope that Greece continues to be the lazy bastards that refuse to bow down to the rest of Europe and their "economy". What good does this "economy" do other than ensure that we work till we drop. More power to the Greeks pass over that lamb chop after I have my fourth shot of Uzo.
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