Nasal cancer (beach, pitbull, shepherd, tumors) - Dogs - - Page 71 - City-Data Forum

Dashdog · 06-24-2009, 02:11 AM

Is the outside of Zack's nose different looking? Can you post a photo? I ask this because about 2 months after my mom was diagnosed with lung cancer my parents big Mal X collie mix Henry developed a strange looking spot on his nose and he also developed alot of nasal discharge and it would coat his nose and dry on it and clog up his nasal passages.( this was back in 2004 so way before Dash developed his cancer) . His vets were thinking it was nasal cancer and my poor mom was so broken hearted as here she was with cancer and now the dog too? They did biopsies and it turns out his was lupus. He had been on prednisone and antibiotics off and on for years as he had skin issues and I think they weakend his immune system so that the stress of my mom being sick and going through chemo stressed Henry too much and he developed the lupus which is an auto immune disorder.

The lupus lesion actually ate up the whole length of his muzzle as my mom got sicker and nothing the vet gave seemed to help. When I moved in to help at the end of my mom's life I changed his diet, took him off of the meds the vet gave him and gave him mega doses of fish oil, missing link and coconut oil and sprayed his nose several times a day with Willards water and finally his lesion healed! So in his case it was lupus not cancer.

Dash and I think most of the others here have cancer that is up in the sinuses so do not see any changes in appearance on the outside except in the later stages where the muzzle can swell if the cancer moves outward . Though to be honest we do not know if Dash's swelling is the actual cancer or if it is a trapped pocket of infection from the wound the neoplasene may have caused inside his sinuses. The vet does not want to poke it as if it is cancer and that opened it to the outside he can develop a wound that will not heal and will get alot of infections so we are pulsing him with antibiotics incase it is infection. I guess time will tell.

seahorsestarfish · 06-24-2009, 05:40 AM

Thank you for the infomation and I am sorry for your mom and her dog. I have put alot of photos of Zack and my other dog Ice in an album. A few were from lastnight so you can see his nose. Can I ask what kind of food are you feeding Dash and how much of the fish oil did you give your mom's dog? I am giving Zack fish oil but one tablet a day. I have been doing this for a while now (maybe 1 year or more but stopped when he first had what they thought was an allergic reaction) and just started back about two weeks ago. I am feeding him life's abundance food and thought it was good but I don't know. Thank you and I hope you have a great day, Sasha

Dashdog · 06-24-2009, 01:42 PM

Looked at you albums. Zack and Ice are beautiful dogs! The close up photo the nose is a bit blurred but that one corner does sort of look rough like Henry's when he first started with all the snot then the nose developed a lesion.Henry was over 100lbs so got anywhere from 4 to 5 fish oil pills per day so 4,000-5,000mg and he tolerated the dose very well. In high enough doses it is very anti-inflammatory. I think often with things like that the more you need it the more you can tolerate it.

Dash's diet is a bit complicated as a few years ago he developed Calcium Oxalte stones so the vet put him on UD ( which I hate as the stuff in it is bad) It is a high fat low carb diet. He has not had any more stones. When he got the cancer I was torn as I know how important protein is yet the vet says it is bad due to the stones. After doing research and reading about cancer and diet and seeing the Fuzzer diet for Calcium oxalate stones I decided that high quality proteins are ok so he gets things like Eggs, Fish , chicken and some veggies being careful to stay away from ones that are high in Oxalates. We went through a period where all he wanted was protein so I ended up feeding him EVO and his urine came back great but his BUN had gone up so the vet was not happy with that so I switched back to The UD and mixed in senior Innova OR some EVO and he has done great on that along with the extra stuff I mentioned. Dash does tend to feel alot better when he is getting more proetin but in his case I have to keep a close eye on his BUN. ( he gets frequent blood test because of the piroxicam) Mixing in some of the UD seems to help keep his BUN normal even if mixed with EVO.

He also gets frequent plain yogart as he has been on alot of antibiotics and I had been using some probiotics but the place I got them is not carring them anymore. He gets Missing link , Hoxsey and Power mushrooms with his evening meal. Sometimes I will put shredded cheese on his food as he loves that. The funny thing is that as sick as he has been at times from infections and the fact he has been battling this cancer as long as he has his coat is still shiny and oh so soft.People always comment on it as usually sick dogs do not have such nice coats. He is doing so much better since we started him on the thyroid pills yet strange as it is his coat was not effected by his low thyroid and usually it is! He is now at the point where he wants to protect Dazzle at the dog park if a dog picks on Dazzle, he will run at the dog and bark at it and all the dogs are abit cautious around him because of that swelling on his muzzle so they seem to listen and leave Dazzle alone and Dash stands proud like I told him!

What you want is a food that is higher in protein and low in carbs as cancer uses carbs as fuel.

seahorsestarfish · 06-24-2009, 03:58 PM

Thank you so much for your kind words about Zackand Ice!!! They certainly are my babies!!! As I said before Zack is 11 and Ice is just one year younger at 10. I enjoyed looking at your photos and your babies are beautiful as well!!!! I have been giving Zackjust one fish oil pill which I think is 1,000mg. He is a little over 70lbs so I guess I will start giving him at least 2 pills and maybe 3. Thank you for the advise!I think I may try the EVO diet since you have had success most with it in exception to Dash's stones. Do you think in your opionon it is a good food for Ice also or is it to high in protein? I read a few reviews quickly and there were some that said the food made their dog sick. Maybe because of the high protein??? Also do you know if this is bad for kidney's? When Zack had to stop radiation that he was being treated with for his cancerous mass we took him to a holistic vet. (this mass he had was removed but not all of it was gone that is why we had radiation treatments. Only was able to complete 8 treatment of the recommended 21)The holistic vet recommended a raw diet and also many powders and drops for cancer and immune to Zack. After 2 or 3 weeks of this is when Zack started with the hot spots, eye infection and nose problem. We took him back to his regular vet and they told us it was all allergy related so we stopped everything we were giving him that was different. It seems strange that all this started then????Can I ask where you get your power mushrooms, hosey and missing link? Do you order it from a website or get it at a store and is it ok to mix everything together? I really appreciate all your help and it is great to actually get advise from you because Dash seems to be doing so good with what you are giving him!!!!!Thanks again!!!!

eginalsk · 06-24-2009, 07:00 PM

Hey Jan,
I'm wondering why and how often you do blood tests due to piroxicam. We started it a few weeks ago and the vet didn't mention anything about needing to check blood.

Also, have you had any resistance issues with the antibiotics? We've been using the same one on and off since diagnosis, and I'm noticing it doesn't seem to be clearing things up as quickly any more. Not sure if that means the snot is not due to infection (although it came on quickly after sitting around a campfire) or if it could be time to switch to another antibiotic.

Any thoughts?

Dashdog · 06-25-2009, 03:19 AM

Sasha ,

Yes EVO can be hard on the Kidneys so I would think you have to be careful feeding it to older dogs. I do not think it is made from the real high quality proteins . It did make the BUN go up which is why I stopped feeding it unless I mix it with the UD. I have heard that dogs either do real well on it or they do not tolerate it. Dash has always had the caste iron gut and tolerates any thing he eats well. There are times he has eaten things that should have made him sick or at very least given him bad diarrhea but didn't.

Missing Link can be found at most pet stores. I get mine at the feed store and buy a 5lb bag as it is cheaper that way and with 3 dogs getting it that helps. The Hoxsey and power mushrooms I first was getting from our Holistic vet but she is 90 miles away so I get them on line they are the World Herbs, Herbs for Pet . I did see them in a pet store that specializes in natural-holistic pet supplies but it was down In Sherman Oaks a block from the vet so once again is 90 miles away.

When Zack had what your regular vet said was an allergic reaction did you check with the holistic vet? I ask this because alot of herbal things Detoxify the body so are pulling toxins and often you get what appears to be a bad reaction before you see positive results. In other words things get worse before they get better. I think I read that you may see this type of reaction when you switch to a raw diet too and you just ride it out and it goes away. We did not have that problem with the Hoxsey or power mushrooms . I do have to be careful with the neoplasene as in the beginning we went too fast and that meant more cancer die off which meant more toxins released which meant more mucus production. The mucus sort of over whelmed poor Dash as it is produced by the body to remove toxins. Backing off on how often he got it helped alot.

Here is how I view cancer, The three main reasons for death are malnutrition, infection or organ failure. I figure the first two I can control or at least try too and often they are the reasons behind cancer deaths in the earlier stages. Learned all this with my mom and all the lung cancer friends I made on support board. So many people died because of the first two and my mom almost died at 6 months because of 2 infections that the oncologgist would have ignored had I not demanded tests for them. In another day or two she would have become septic and probably would have died. Instead she lived for 2 more years and most of it was pretty good quality time. So for Dash I try to make sure his nutrition is good and at the first sign of infection I make sure it gets taken care of with anibiotics. I use the herbs to try to build up his immune system.

Erica, The oncologist insisted on blood test very month for the piroxicam, He will only give me a months suppy then I have to do the blood tests to get more. I know my regular vet thinks it is a bit excessive but the oncologist insisted(it is not as if he is the one that makes any money as my regular vet does the test then faxes the results to the oncologist who is about 30-45 minutes away ). The actual drug comes in the mail from a compound pharmacy.

Dash has been on different antibiotics. I would imagine resistance can become a problem. I can see where campfire smoke may cause a problem as Dash's worst infections came with the 3 different wildfires we have had since his diagnosis.

seahorsestarfish · 06-25-2009, 09:01 AM

Thank you again for all your information!!!

I just ordered a small 1 pound bad of the missing link with joint support to see how they react to it. I will give it to both Zack and Ice because it sounds very healthy!!! AS for the other world herb items, can you please tell me what website you get them from that has the best price? I would like to order these also for Zack just don't know what site is best.

As for the holistic vet... when zack had these reactions my husband refused to keep going to him. I did at first go back to the holistic vet and he said what you said it was a good thing that this stuff was happening and to not freak out but after a while we didn't want to see Zack suffer and so I went back to the regular vet to try to help him. It is tough because both doctors have totally different views and I guess at the end you have to kinda choose one way to guide you more. I have heard that you have to have these bad reactions sometimes to get the infection and stuff out but my husband didn't want to see Zack suffer this way and it was hard for me to see also. So now that we have stopped these holistic treatments for a while I would like to try a few new holistic items to help him.

I was wondering what other signs your mom's dog had of lupus? Lastnight I almost took Zack to the Vet as an emergency because we were taking our usually walk and he hurt his leg somehow. It was after squating to go to the bathroom he stood up took a couple steps and could not walk with one of his back legs. He held it up and kept shaking it. He did cry or anything and after a while was able to at least walk back home slowly. All night he didn't put any pressure on it and kept holding it up and shaking it. Today he seems almost completley better but not all the way as it is still just a little stiff it seems. This scared me so bad because our cat passed away from a blood clot that went to his legs first but he couldn't move them at all so I don't think this is what happened. He has an appointment tomorrow morning for the second cushings test so I will ask his dr. tomoorow about this. I have read a little about lupus and one sign was the stiff legs. Is this true?

I hope you all have a great and happy day!!
Sasha

Dashdog · 06-25-2009, 01:15 PM

Sasha,

This is the site that I use for the hoxsey and the power mushrooms. I don't know if it is the cheapest but it does allow me more choice as to if I want powder or Capsules and also I have choices about the amount and the smaller amounts are similar to what I paid at the vets. http://www.darcynat.com/. I like the capsules but I do open them and pour the powder inside on the food. If we are going through a period where he doesn't want to eat which seems to be an indication that he has an infection I can then pop the capsules in his mouth.
He hates taking pills but this way I can give with food and by opening them he can not pick them out or if necessary I can use it like a pill.

With the Missing Link start at a smaller dose and work your way up to the correct amount as if you give the full amount right away you may get diarrhea. Jazz gets diarrhea at the full amount but I have found an amount for her that she doesn't get it so I use that amount for her. Just like us all dogs are different so tolerate and respond to things in a different way so making adjustments can help them tolerate it.

As for the reactions Zach had in the past yes it is very hard to see and it is the reason I have the love hate relationship with the neoplasene. Dash had been off it since his last infection and was breathing very clear not making much noise, no drainage unless I touch the swelling.Last week due to that swelling I decided to start him back on it and sure enough now he is all stuffed up again and makes all the noises and yes it is hard to see but the pay off so far has been worth it in the past.

My oncologist and my regular vet were both skeptical about the neoplasene and while neither said don't do it, I think they were both hoping I would not use it. Now I am not sure what they are thinking as Dash is still alive and they have seen a test tube filled with some of the tissue he has sneezed out and see that he still has a decent quality of life so they may be thinking more positive thoughts about the neoplasene. At one point the oncologist and Holistic vet had a meeting of the minds as he was not sure Dash should stay on the neoplasene but whatever the holistic vet said to him seemed to have changed his mind. She is rather well known and got her vet degree from UC Davis back in the early 70's so has been around for awhile so I know I feel she knows what she is doing and she is a vet that really seems concerned about the animal and what is best for it.

There is an event that is called the healing crisis which is where you let things be even when it looks bad and you wake up oneday and if it was indeed the healing crisis things are much better and it seems like the change was overnight. It is hard to decide if that is what is happening and yes if you guess wrong you could wake up and find an even sicker dog or a dead dog but sometimes it is necessary to take the risk.

With one of Dash's infections he got real bad and would not eat, wanted nothing to do with me and I thought for sure he was going to die but I had just read a book on natural healing and read about the healing crisis so took the advice and did not force him to eat or take his pills and instead let him be it was hard but I thought I will give it a day or two and if he is not better then I will take him in and have him put down. Well after a very rough day where he hid and slept all day I got up to find him wagging his tail and ready to eat so I figure he had some sort of healing crisis.

Dr Martin Goldstein's book is called Natural Healing For Pets and it is an excellent book. If I lived on the east coast I would have taken Dash to see him but I am on the west coast.

As for lupus there are two types the SLE ( systemic lupus erythematosus) and with that form you see weakness in legs but the type Henry had was Discoid Lupus and it involves the nose and face. I thinK I said when he developed it the vets were pretty certain it was nasal cancer but the biopsy came back as Lupus. When it did not respond well to treatment they did a 2nd biopsy ( for free as the vets all loved my mom to pieces and she got huge price cuts from them

) It came back the same Discoid Lupus. I think Siberian Huskeys are a breed that is more prone to discoid lupus.

What Type of Cancer did Zach have before? What part of his body did he get the radiation on? How long ago?

seahorsestarfish · 06-25-2009, 02:08 PM

He had a mass on his rear right above where his anal glad is. At first they thought it was an anal gland but it was in a weird spot. He had one anal glad rupture a couple years ago and have to have surgery on it. The mass was removed with what the dr. thought was clear margins but when the results came back it was not clear. This was the begining of March this year so just a few months ago.

We started radiation right away as they told us it is not hard on dogs and they were pretty certain he would be able to be clear after treatment. The scheduled treatment was for 7 weeks at 3 times a week. We were only able to complete 8 treatments because he had a very rare side effect which the dr. told us he has only seen 1 time before. Where Zacks incision was made from the surgery began to open. The dr. called me that friday which would have been his 9th treatment to tell me I only had two bad choices. One to stop treatment and his prognosis would not be as good or two continue treatment and then he would have an open wound that would never heal. If we did this he would need a skin graft and they couldn't promiss how that would take.

My husband and I decided to stop because we didn't want to put Zack through all the pain that would probably happen to him and thought well maybe the 8 treatments helped. At this point is when I took him to the holistic dr. To tell you the truth this holistic dr. was what seemed just a stoner as what my husband said. I'm not sure if they really know what they were doing or not. From his website it seemed thathe had many things to back him up but at the end we stopped this also as you know. Where on the east coast is Dr. Martin Goldstein located? I am in the Miami area, is he close to hear by any chance? I will have to get his book to read for sure.

Today Zack is walking better with his leg that was hurt lastnight and we have an appointment at 8am tomorrow which I will tell them about this eppisode then. Maybe it is just from old age and got a cramp or something I am hoping.

Well I will look at the website now that you use. I can not thank you enough for your support and help and I wish you, Dash and your other babies a good night!!!

Sasha

Dashdog · 06-25-2009, 02:33 PM

Martin Goldstein is at Smith Ridge Veterinary Center in South Salem New York.

I asked adout Zack's prior radiation as I know with radiation you get two sets of side effects the first tend to happen soon as they happen to fast growing cells and the other happens months later as they happen to slower growing cells. Radiation for nasal cancer can burn the area which is the the fast growing cells but 9 months later the late side effects happen such as cataracts. Don't know if there are later effects in the hind quarters but maybe that could be responsible for his leg weakness??? Just a thought. Hopefully it is nothing. Jazz once could not use her hind leg I kept her quiet and the next day when I got up and we had a vet appointment she was fine and the vet checked it out anyway and found nothing abnormal and she did not have the problem again.

Let us know what the vets says. I will be sending positive thoughts and prayers Zack's way. Jan