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Humans really are not so tough against teeth, no honestly it doesn't really matter much. Lab or Pit both have the potential to do real damage. When a Collie causes the need for 200 stitches and a Golden literally rips a ladys face off, the look of being more intimidating to some means little.
I would really, REALLY like to see some statistics of types of dogs that have bitten and caused serious harm to humans.
I see comments like yours bandied about, and it means nothing to me. I'm sure every breed has their horror stories, but I am wondering about sheer numbers here. I seriously wonder about a dog with obviously strong, muscular jaws, who bites and holds on. Call me a cynic, but I have a very hard time believing that its reputation just came out of the blue.
Quote:
Originally Posted by APBT_Samara
The fighting is scary to those who don't understand it. I'd much rather separate a Pit Bull fight than another breed where I will get bit because a Pit will keep their hold. Not be wildly snapping where I might get those teeth and won't try to bite whatever they fill touching them. I find it much less scary because I'm not in harms way and can stop it without worry for myself.
I understand that this is a powerful dog that will bite and hold on. Therefore, it's not one that I trust when I don't know whose hands it's been raised by.
I see young people all the time in the city where I work with pits. I have absolutely no trust that these dogs are under any sort of control, and have been raised properly. Yes, if they are walking a pointer down the street, I am much less apt to cross before I get to them.
Gee, thanks for the kind enlightenment. *sigh* I'm going by what I saw on the Animal Planet show.
Once again, thanks for the kind enlightenment.
Honestly, what is the DEAL with this attitude? Where have I, in any of my initial posts, been either rude or condescending to anyone?
Why is it that there are so many gory attacks by bull breeds? Perhaps because the owners of these dogs use their strength and fighting ability for the wrong purposes? Like I've said, and I'll say it again (at the risk of getting a migraine from banging my head into this wall), I believe in nuture over nature. However, with that being said, I also believe that most people who own pit bulls have no business owning this type of breed.
You can train any dog to attack, sure. But, where's the "sport" in training a lab or golden to do so?
I've met terrific pit bulls in my time. However, I simply do not trust the average pit bull walking down the street, because I do not trust that their owner is responsible with the dog.
If this is "wrong" in the minds of you *experts* here or not "politically correct", so be it. I've seen nothing on these threads, or elsewhere, to lead me to believe otherwise.
Oh, yes, you sure are showing that you can see it from other perspectives...
Thanks, once again, for your kind enlightenment.
I am going by what I know from experience and fact, not what ppl or TV shows tell me. I have had two of the breed.
I have no attitude, I was simply responding to your post. There are gory attacks but the Bullie type dogs and that freaking sucks it does. But there is also gory attacks by other breeds of dogs that rarely receive media attention and there has also been dogs identified as pitbulls in the media that were simply not pitbulls. There are breeds and types of dogs that get torn apart by the media, like the Mastiffs that killed that stars gardener or something then the vet said they did not kill him. 99% of the media that said they killed him never reported it and dropped the story because its not newsworthy if the "dangerous breeds" dont kill or injure people.
There has been news of a Collie and a small dog tearing hte face of separate kids but its not widly reported because its not very interesting I guess.
If I come off wrong I apologise, I dont mean to but since Day 1 of getting my first Staff I have to put up with such ignorance it loses its comedic value real quick (I am not saying you are ignorant, just saying in general). You know how many ppl tell me that they have lock jaw, 10,000 PSI, will kill any dog within range blah blah blah blah
And I feel that most people who own dogs in general have no business owning a dog full stop. Lets say you ban Pitbull Type dogs like Holland, Denver and the UK did. What does that leave you with ? A dirtbag getting another type of dog :S. Holland saw a rise in dog bites after banning Pit Type dogs and actually stopped their ban. UK did not see a decrease.
i think the pit bull rep is kind of a circular, chicken and egg thing.... many were bred for fighting, so they have the "tough rep" which in turn causes the wrong kind of people to want them and have them .... and by the wrong kind, i mean those that have no business with this or any other dog.... they just want it for its macho or tough factor.... and the circle continues.... to the dog's detriment......
What a load of bs!! Knowledge for the day: Did you know a Rottweiler and a German Shepard have more pounds per square inch versus a pit bull? I have heard it all from their jaws lock, to they have an extra set of teeth in their throat. What you said is laughable. Just to reinforce this: From pit bull myths:
Tests that have been done comparing the bite pressure of several breeds showed pressure PSI (per square inch) to be considerably lower than some wild estimates that have been made. Testing has shown that the domestic dog averages about 320 lbs of pressure per square inch. Recently Dr. Brady Barr of National Geographic conducted a comparative test between a Pit Bull, a Rottweiler, and a German Shepherd. The Pit Bull had the LOWEST PSI OF THE THREE.
The highest pressure recorded from the Pit Bull was 235 lbs PSI. The highest from the GSD was 238, and the highest from the Rott was 328. Dr. Barr states that as far as he knows, the PSI tested in the Rott is the highest on record for any domestic canine.
What happened to the supposed 10,000 pounds PSI pressure that the breed supposedly has??? It's a MYTH, pure and simple.
It is not measured in "PSI" (Pounds per Square Inch), the bite force was measured in Newtons (and not in Newtons per Square Meter).
1 Newton = 0.224808943 Pounds of Force
The actual abstract from the study says:
Quote:
A force transducer was developed to measure bite force in dogs. A total of 101 readings was obtained from 22 pet dogs ranging in size from 7 to 55 kg. Bite forces ranged from 13 to 1394 Newtons with a mean for all dogs of 256 Newtons and a median of 163 Newtons. Most measurements fell within the low end of the range, with 55% of the biting episodes less than 200 Newtons and 77% less than 400 Newtons.
The bite force mean for all dogs tested between 15.4 pounds and 121.3 pounds in weight is 57.6 pounds of force, and the median is 36.6 pounds of force.
The highest bite force of any canine on record is from an English Mastiff with a bite force of 2,455 Newtons, or 552 pounds of force (not psi). As one might expect, the bigger the dog and the larger the head, the more bite force they have.
It only requires between 7 and 11 pounds of force (31.1 to 48.9 Newtons) to break bone, so even the dog with the weakest recorded bite is still capable of breaking bone.
If I come off wrong I apologise, I dont mean to but since Day 1 of getting my first Staff I have to put up with such ignorance it loses its comedic value real quick (I am not saying you are ignorant, just saying in general). You know how many ppl tell me that they have lock jaw, 10,000 PSI, will kill any dog within range blah blah blah blah
I understand where you're coming from, but please understand that people like me, on forums such as this, are not your enemies.
I *get* where you're coming from, in that you own a dog which is villified, and you're defensive. That's understandable. However, please understand that a lot of times, you don't have a clue as to who you are speaking with online, and what their own background with dogs is. My particular situation is that I currently have *my* first dog, a pointer/lab mix (maybe?) whose biggest public relations problem is that he doesn't understand that when his hackles go up when he's excited, people will be leery.
However, I grew up with akitas. My family's first akita (born in the early 70's) was EVERYTHING an akita should have been. His name was Bonzai, and he was THE epitome of the family guard dog. As a matter of fact, I have heard that when I was a baby, and still in a crib, this dog would not let a particular babysitter into my room. He would sit in the doorway, and give the soft growl that any being with a pulse knows that you do not cross. Turns out, this woman was stealing from my parents. Smart dog...
And...a dog that certainly could have been highly dangerous in the wrong hands.
Christmas day, in about 1976 or 77, my grandparents were visiting with their miniature poodle. Bonzai was minding his business, and this little dog was in his face. Maybe my parents should have been more forceful with my grandparents about taking their dog out of the situation, but...they weren't. One bite to the midsection, and that was it. And, this was also in the days before emergency vets in every town. My grandfather NEVER forgave the dog...
So, yeah, I *get* it. I understand, from my own experiences, the distinct differences between breeds, and between indivdual dogs, and also, how a dog with certain innate propensities can be extremely dangerous. All dogs have teeth, yes. But, if I were to be given a choice between going up to a dog like my current one, or a dog like Bonzai...yeah, no contest.
Akitas had the misfortune of being the "yuppy puppy" of the 80's. Pits have the misfortune of having every little punk thug wanting one.
I read through forums like this one, and yes, watch programs like the one on Animal Planet, and get my education. I'm fairly certain that I will never have a pit bull of my own, but I certainly hope that will not prevent me from being able to give my opinions on issues such as this one.
Like I've said here, I distrust the owners more than the animals. *But* knowing what the animals are capable of, and what were initially bred for, seeing a punk kid with a pit bull is a lot more off-putting than seeing one with a lab or golden.
What a load of bs!! Knowledge for the day: Did you know a Rottweiler and a German Shepard have more pounds per square inch versus a pit bull? I have heard it all from their jaws lock, to they have an extra set of teeth in their throat. What you said is laughable. Just to reinforce this: From pit bull myths:
Tests that have been done comparing the bite pressure of several
breeds showed pressure PSI (per square inch) to be considerably lower
than some wild estimates that have been made. Testing has shown that
the domestic dog averages about 320 lbs of pressure per square inch.
Recently Dr. Brady Barr of National Geographic conducted a comparative
test between a Pit Bull, a Rottweiler, and a German Shepherd. The Pit
Bull had the LOWEST PSI OF THE THREE.
The highest pressure recorded from the Pit Bull was 235 lbs PSI. The
highest from the GSD was 238, and the highest from the Rott was 328.
Dr. Barr states that as far as he knows, the PSI tested in the Rott is the
highest on record for any domestic canine.
What happened to the supposed 10,000 pounds PSI pressure that the
breed supposedly has??? It's a MYTH, pure and simple.
I was merely speaking about their muscles, which from what I understand speaks more to their ability to hold their grip than anything else. I'm not speaking of PSI, or anything else that you've been kind enough to mention here. Take a look at Samara's posts for talk about how she's not afraid of fights involving pits because they hold their bite, rather than snapping.
But, I understand, emotion sometimes overrides reason in this area.
If you want to speak down to people, you might want to actually take a deep breath and actually read what they write before you do so.
I know youre not enemies, I just have to voice my opinions and facts when I read these threads! I try my best to stay away from any threads to to with APBTS, Staffs, AmStaffs and the like because they are plagued with ignorance.
I am not the thug that most people who are ignorant to the breeds/types that most people think I am. I fought and beat BSL single handedly in my town. The irony was that my dog is judged to be a threat to the community, when the councilwoman who wanted the BSL's dog had attacked and killed 5 goats on 3 seperate occasions and she was fighting to not have it put down because it was a great dog.
Staffs were bred for dog fighting. Thats animal agression which I am not one bit worried about. If a Staff (way back when fighting was a sport) showed human agression it was put down by the responsible breeder. These types of dogs were not bred for any type of human agression so the dogs history (if people want to go by that) should not really have a bearing on your safey. Maybe your dogs safety but not yours.
My neighbors loved my dog so much when I got it they beat him, stabbed him and poisoned him once. I have animal control called to my house because Dakota is out biting people all the while he was actually sitting on my couch. They told me about the PSI and all that bs that is media hype right now so that is why I stand defensive of the only breed of dog that I actually trust with my kids.
Even if other breeds attack rate is low how can one know of its a strange dog how it will behave. What is the Lab, Golden, or Collie you meet is in the minority. You are not likely to get struck by lightning but it is possible.
I judge a dogs body language and demeanor. It is that simple for me. You might believe in nurture over nature I don't. I believe they go hand in hand and I too may judge by breed. I know that by nature Pit Bulls are usually friendly so I don't have fear of strange ones. I know that Filas don't accept strangers and wouldn't approach one believing it would be friendly just because the owner is responsible. I assure you that my Pit would be just as affectionate to you as they are to me but that my Caucasian Ovcharka will show you no love and will not be the least bit kind even if ypu have a steak in your hand.
A dogs environment, training and socialization can be very important but so is the innate nature of that dog. It is why you cam have numerous people with dogs of the same bloodline who will act the same. Why breeds are known for certain traits even when the owner didn't raise or encourage that. It is also a reason why a cold Pit can't be "nurtured" into fighting.
I've been around them since a child so I have no fear of them and trust the breed overall. Put of the 100s I've known only a very small amount have been dangerous. I've only known a couple which were unpredictable, which to me are truly dangerous. A dog without known triggers or stimuli that causes aggression is not safe. There are no warning signs with the dog, little nurture can do. My own like this I found out later his dam was the same way. I know it was hereditary and I suspect it could have been something neurological. Not much is known about such things in dogs like they are in people so I felt for him to be PTS was the best thing. Not thinking he needed training or got screwed up in being raised.
This is something I believe and can never ignore. I do think people need to raise their dogs proper though and won't make excuses for those who encourage aggression or act irresponsible. Their negligence can have tragic consequences.
Pits are great dogs. I was hesitant when I got my baby girl Jenna because I fell into the nonsense about them being aggressive, bad with kids, and a breed that will turn on their owners. After having her for 7 years and having experience being around many other pits all I can say is that people are so ignorant! My girl is great with people, even babies, and has even been attacked by other breeds of dogs and still isn't aggressive. It really depends on how they are brought up. I have seen many more mean chiwawas than pits. I hate the bad rep they have and people need to give them a chance, they are the sweetest and most loyal breed I have ever owned or been around.
I watched the video and thought it was interesting and informative about APBTs. As someone else mentioned, the part of the video that captured my interest was the size of the jaw muscle.
My sister and her family have 5 dogs (I posted their picture in the Dog Pictures sticky thread a day or two ago) and the newest one is their 2-year-old male pit bull, Wylie. My experience with this dog has been positive. He has a loving, gentle temperament. Since the other 4 dogs are small ones (2 Chihuahuas and 2 pugs), Wylie sometimes "thinks" he's a 70-lb lap dog if you happen to be sitting on the sofa, wanting to get his belly scratched. He does, however, have a tendency to get overly-excited so we try not to get him too worked up, especially inside the house. Sometimes that's easier said than done.
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Just to reinforce this: From pit bull myths:
