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Old 12-12-2019, 02:28 PM
 
Location: Round Rock, Texas
13,448 posts, read 15,506,791 times
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I agree that refined sugars and high fructose corn syrup should be controlled.

They are not the same as fruit picked from the tree.

I eat whole fruit, rotating according to season. No juice or dried fruit.

To me, fresh fruit is a natural bounty that satisfies the sweet craving and provides nutrition. And helps with hydration.
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Old 12-12-2019, 05:35 PM
 
3,211 posts, read 2,984,813 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by riaelise View Post
That statement was not made by me but by a doctor. Though I had gestational diabetes years ago and it was diet controlled. I took no insulin. I ate fruit daily. Yes, some fruits cause spikes more than others, but I've eaten fruit. My dietitian also taught me to pair the fruit with a protein and that worked to control any spikes. (I tested after eating, so this is true). Diabetics can definitely eat berries and bananas..

I've been a diet-controlled diabetic for over 10 years, and I know what fruits do to my blood sugar...a banana alone will spike my sugar to 168 easily, even if eaten with protein.



Doctors tell diabetics to eat way more carbs than they should for good blood glucose control. The ADA guidelines are outdated, and their standards are too low for good sugar control. If I ate fruit and all the carbs they recommend, my A1c would easily be 8 instead of my normal 6, and they'd be prescribing all kinds of meds and insulin for me. I'd rather just limit my carb intake, and that includes fruits, glycemic index be damned...my glucometer shows the truth of it.
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Old 12-12-2019, 07:59 PM
 
Location: NYC
20,550 posts, read 17,740,996 times
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The fact is that fructose is similar to a toxin like alcohol that the body can't really use it. It just has to get rid of it eventually unless your liver doesn't work very well. This is why fructose, especially concentrated form from HFCS is very dangerous for liver health in the long run.

The liver is very resilient, even if it is partially damaged or scarred it can still work to keep us alive. It's the only organ that can regenerate in the body. Once you have fatty liver and a midsection gut, it's pretty obvious that you should avoid fructose as much as you can.

Start doing intermittent fasting to give the body the time to detoxify and pull fats from the liver energy.

Doing a ketogenic diet with intermittent fasting is the best treatment for reversing diabetes.
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Old 12-12-2019, 08:03 PM
 
Location: Round Rock, Texas
13,448 posts, read 15,506,791 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by oldgardener View Post
I've been a diet-controlled diabetic for over 10 years, and I know what fruits do to my blood sugar...a banana alone will spike my sugar to 168 easily, even if eaten with protein.



Doctors tell diabetics to eat way more carbs than they should for good blood glucose control. The ADA guidelines are outdated, and their standards are too low for good sugar control. If I ate fruit and all the carbs they recommend, my A1c would easily be 8 instead of my normal 6, and they'd be prescribing all kinds of meds and insulin for me. I'd rather just limit my carb intake, and that includes fruits, glycemic index be damned...my glucometer shows the truth of it.
By all means people should do what it takes to maintain ones blood sugar. As I said, I had gestational diabetes so I’m familiar with diabetic protocol. I followed a dietitians advice and I was able to control my sugar by diet alone and I ate fruit. I didn’t eat tons of it but I still ate it. The diet was probably 40 percent carb, not particularly low or high. My sugar was in the high 90s, tested after every meal.
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Old 12-13-2019, 08:00 AM
 
5,517 posts, read 2,410,708 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vision33r View Post
The fact is that fructose is similar to a toxin like alcohol that the body can't really use it. It just has to get rid of it eventually unless your liver doesn't work very well. This is why fructose, especially concentrated form from HFCS is very dangerous for liver health in the long run.

The liver is very resilient, even if it is partially damaged or scarred it can still work to keep us alive. It's the only organ that can regenerate in the body. Once you have fatty liver and a midsection gut, it's pretty obvious that you should avoid fructose as much as you can.

Start doing intermittent fasting to give the body the time to detoxify and pull fats from the liver energy.

Doing a ketogenic diet with intermittent fasting is the best treatment for reversing diabetes.
yes excessive over-consumption of sugar-sweetened beverages is hazardous. Fructose from fruits is not toxic.

Fructose is neither absolutely good or evil. It depends on the dosage and context. Are you forgetting that most fructose in both the commercial and natural domain has an equal amount of glucose attached to it. You’d have to go out of your way to obtain fructose without the accompanying glucose. Sucrose is half fructose and half glucose. High-fructose corn syrup (HFCS) is nearly identical to sucrose in structure and function.

So how much fructose can you have per day (all sources considered)? Again, this depends on a number of variables, not the least of which are an individual’s physical activity level and lean body mass. Currently in the literature is a liberal camp reporting that fructose intakes up to 90 grams per day have a beneficial effect on HbA(1c), and no significant effects are seen for fasting triacylglycerol or body weight with intakes up to 100 grams per day in adults. The conservative camp suggests that the safe range is much less than this; roughly 25-40 grams per day. Figuring that both sides are biased, the middle figure between the two camps is roughly 50 grams for adults (I’m talking about the general population, athletes with high energy demands can safely consume more).

All this is backed up with data. Where's your data?

Last edited by Diesel350z; 12-13-2019 at 08:23 AM..
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Old 12-13-2019, 08:10 AM
 
5,517 posts, read 2,410,708 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gguerra View Post
Your theories are way outdated and oversimplified. We know better now. It's not just calories and a calorie is not a calorie. It's not that simple, we've moved away from that. You are ignoring macronutrients, they do matter. You eat nothing but sugar and nothing else, then I could believe the diabetes. You could eat nothing but sugar, be a marathon runner, normal weight and still be unhealthy and have heart disease. In fact, I've heard of more than once, long distance runners drop dead, from heart attacks, it happens. I thought they were supposed to be in good health? You eat nothing but protein and fat, like the Inuit and you could be quite healthy with no heart disease. You could also be obese and be healthy otherwise, good cholesterol, blood pressure, glucose etc.

Sugar, refined carbs, and other processed crap people eat are the real killers.
These are not my theories. These are actual studies with data showing that when calories/protein are equal it doesn't matter low carb or low fat, there is no difference in weight loss or health markers. If sugars are the real killer why have they decreased over the last 30 yrs?


https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/25007189

I'm not ignoring macro nutrients. High protein diets are very important to increase lean body mass, improve recovery from exercise, and improve fat loss.

Last edited by Diesel350z; 12-13-2019 at 08:35 AM..
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Old 12-13-2019, 03:17 PM
 
5,517 posts, read 2,410,708 times
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Notes on the mythical diagnosis of sugar addiction:
1) Most claiming to have a "sweet tooth" also have a "cheeseburger & fries tooth."
2) Most who think they have a sugar addiction ironically don't have a "fresh fruit addiction."
3) Don't confuse hyperpalatable foods with sugar.
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Old 12-13-2019, 03:20 PM
 
5,517 posts, read 2,410,708 times
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150g of Fructose intake a day. No consequences in healthy Subjects

https://academic.oup.com/ajcn/advanc...nqz271/5651310
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Old 12-13-2019, 03:36 PM
 
8,943 posts, read 11,801,173 times
Reputation: 10871
Quote:
Originally Posted by oldgardener View Post
I've been a diet-controlled diabetic for over 10 years, and I know what fruits do to my blood sugar...a banana alone will spike my sugar to 168 easily, even if eaten with protein.



Doctors tell diabetics to eat way more carbs than they should for good blood glucose control. The ADA guidelines are outdated, and their standards are too low for good sugar control. If I ate fruit and all the carbs they recommend, my A1c would easily be 8 instead of my normal 6, and they'd be prescribing all kinds of meds and insulin for me. I'd rather just limit my carb intake, and that includes fruits, glycemic index be damned...my glucometer shows the truth of it.
Not to mention you might get fat too. I love watching cows graze on grass. It never ceases to amaze me that grass which is full of carbs/sugar and virtually no fat, yet it makes the cows that eat it fat.
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Old 12-13-2019, 08:43 PM
 
5,517 posts, read 2,410,708 times
Reputation: 2159
Quote:
Originally Posted by davidt1 View Post
Not to mention you might get fat too. I love watching cows graze on grass. It never ceases to amaze me that grass which is full of carbs/sugar and virtually no fat, yet it makes the cows that eat it fat.
You are forgetting that the last part of the process they are grain fed to fatten them up.
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