Moving to Denver ....?'s on Racism (to live, centers, eat)

[wankel7]

Originally Posted by jcx

We are thinking about moving to denver from phx but was wondering if there is racism there? We have young children and dont want to move directly into an area that may be an issue

I am sure it happens here. I am sure it happens everywhere.

I am sure I don't care what color you are.

Come here and have a blast!

[denverian]

Originally Posted by wanttomoveeast

Scott: About a few posts ago in response to Turco or Subsound I think it was, I talked a lot industrialism. The Black Panthers were adamant about it. The race class I took, I forgot the prof., but it was at CU of Denver about 2 yrs. ago. That class was much more mixed - we had a couple of Jews, blacks, hispanics, asians and whites. It got to where I thought a fight might break out and the prof. had to remind people to be respectful. One person in particular was outright racist and said so and after that it got really ugly. I studied Dubois along with a zillion other sociologists, it was my major.

My DH is from Orange County, Calif. and he remembers a time when skinheads were rampant. They were here too, but it was about 15 yrs. ago they seemed to disappear.

And lastly, thanks for saying this: "It's conceivable for black people to have some resentment, even now..." I truly believe that some of that resentment and anger would be let go if the whites were respectful of it and didn't act like 1) we have chips on our shoulders; 2) we are overly sensitive and 3) we should just get over it. If you think about it, race totally aside but as people, often two sides would get along better if both sides learned some empathy and recognized each others hurts.

We lived in Orange County for 10 years, and it's getting better, at least regarding race relations. My family was there since the early 1900s, and from what I've heard, it was very white and fairly racist up until the early '90s. There still aren't many black people there though - lots of Asians, Hispanics, and a growing Middle Eastern population.

I can totally understand the resentment. The effects of racism and slavery can still be seen/felt in the black communities of this country- I'm guessing due to poverty being passed down from generation to generation, poor education opportunities for so many, along with blatant racism. I was just watching an episode of "Good Times" this morning and it's like watching a piece of history from 35 years ago, seeing how life was for so many black people then. That really wasn't that long ago, when you think about it.

[DenverLawGal]

Turco: I do not feel I misinterpreted your statements, I simply have my own opinions and I do not agree with some of your statements. Of course I perceived your statements in a certain way just as you have done the same with me. It's not really worth arguing about. And this is going to sound silly and childish, but I see no other way of saying it. You asked, did I say black or gay? My response is I don't think so, but I also don't think I accused you of saying it. If you dislike getting into debates such as this one, why have you continued to post these long wordy posts? Why not just let it lie? I've repeatedly apologized to you for not wording myself the way I wanted to, for perhaps misunderstanding your posts, etc. But yet you still respond to me -- ? And yeah, I came up w/comments all on my own, who else's comments are they? Whether they are judgmental or not is your own perogative, I certainly don't think it's the truth. Maybe your truth.

I do not feel that because you disagree you must be tortured. I do feel that unless you are in someone else's shoes, you really cannot argue in their place. You really have no idea what it's like being black or gay. Some of what you had to say completely outraged me, but that could be because I am black and you are not, and your assessments seem very naive and ignorant. Sometimes yes, insensitive. Really that's why I responded because I feel that sometimes things need to be said when no one else will say them. I thought you were first partaking in this thread because you had a natural curiosity and honestly wanted to understand another group's perspective, not argue about it.

I can't speak for what Denverian thinks, although I do think he's more diplomatic than I am.

[DenverLawGal]

I don't know about that. For one thing, when you are face to face with someone you weigh your comments much more, vs. the web when you can type whatever with little personal accountability.

The problem w/the web is (see me and Turco) no one can see each other's body language, hear their tone, etc. So a lot of disagreement may not be that at all in person.

The classroom thing was constructive in that we had someone produce factual information that some may not have known, thereby bringing about awareness and further thought.

Originally Posted by PeixeGato

I think what the web does allow is time for people to reflect and think before they respond. When you are face to face with someone, you are much more likely to speak out of emotion. So maybe a classroom discussion wouldn't be that constructive, lol.

[DenverLawGal]

Turco: Good Times. ahh. Watch the Jeffersons for more insight. So strange to see. Sometimes it feels like forever ago, but like you said, it really wasn't that long ago. I do feel that a better understanding of each other might bring about empathy towards both sides and therefore close the gap more.

[ArthurOPodd]

In the circles we've moved in, professionals with degrees, there is little or no overt racism like name calling or such. But subtle racism is overwhelming. The "Good Ol' Boy" networks abound. If you are a minority or a woman, do not hold your breath waiting for advancement, even in a Government position.

My (Black) wife's supervisors literally told her to her face (the only black woman in the office at the time) that they would not support her for advancement. They routinely denied her the opportunity to work on computer related job requirements at home on the early release school days, but allowed a white "Good Ol' Boy" without school age children to work from home more often than she'd been requesting.

In the schools, we didn't see much overt racism again, but economics were a cause for "look down your nose" syndrome.

[DenverLawGal]

Arthur: Excellent post. We sure did leave out the prof. realm. I work in a place that is supposedly diverse driven. Out of tons of profs. we hardly have any blacks or anyone else for that matter other than white. And your poor wife, forget about trying to sue or go to the Labor Dept. The Good Ol' Boy syndrome is rampant these days.

[PeixeGato]

Oh, going into the workplace....that'll carry us another 20 pages, at least!

Wouldn't it be great if communities that were diverse (in any number of ways) actually made it a point to publicly celebrate that? This would be a "fun" way of raising awareness of the importance of living and socializing in a diverse community of people. It would also make a lot of people who live in extremely homogeneous communities rethink their definition of "utopia".

[DenverLawGal]

oh gawd, yes the workplace. We've already touched on that subject. So what's your thoughts on how to publicly celebrate diversity in communities?

I must say, I was so happy to go to my work xmas party this weekend. I've never seen so many interracial couples in one spot, including me and my DH.

[PeixeGato]

In terms of ways to publicly celebrate diversity, maybe having events that highlight many cultures or that are specifically designated as "diversity events". This would go further toward making people consciously aware of the benefits of a diverse society. When you have the standard "ethnic festivals", they are nice, but you are celebrating diversity by concentrating on just one ethnic group, which in and of itself is a bit of a segregationist way of doing it. I just think we need a transformational way of approaching the diversity issue.

Wouldn't it be great if you could go to a multi-ethnic event where you had someone selling indian food right next to someone selling mexican food right next to someone selling native american artwork and so on and so on?

But in the end, I think its more important to start in the schools. When kids learn things, they talk to their parents about it and force their parents to think about it. Kids have a way of doing that. For those of us without kids, you can just go to the multi-ethnic festivals and listen to a mexican mariachi band, and irish celtic band, watch some flamenco dancers while drinking beer and/or wine from all over the world.

Sounds like a fun time to me!