Moving to Denver ....?'s on Racism (assessment, train, suburbs)

[vegaspilgrim]

Originally Posted by PeixeGato

In terms of ways to publicly celebrate diversity, maybe having events that highlight many cultures or that are specifically designated as "diversity events". This would go further toward making people consciously aware of the benefits of a diverse society. When you have the standard "ethnic festivals", they are nice, but you are celebrating diversity by concentrating on just one ethnic group, which in and of itself is a bit of a segregationist way of doing it. I just think we need a transformational way of approaching the diversity issue.

Wouldn't it be great if you could go to a multi-ethnic event where you had someone selling indian food right next to someone selling mexican food right next to someone selling native american artwork and so on and so on?

But in the end, I think its more important to start in the schools. When kids learn things, they talk to their parents about it and force their parents to think about it. Kids have a way of doing that. For those of us without kids, you can just go to the multi-ethnic festivals and listen to a mexican mariachi band, and irish celtic band, watch some flamenco dancers while drinking beer and/or wine from all over the world.

Sounds like a fun time to me!

International food and dance/music festivals are fun-- but they promote an extremely simplistic, stereotypical, cartoonish view of different cultures around the world (in the name of "multiculturalism," ironically). Just because somebody enjoys ethnic cuisines doesn't mean they know jack about that culture-- or even have any tolerance. Food is food.

[sportsfangal]

"Arthur" - great post, it's the undercover racism that some people don't realize is happening. especially with my white friends, if I tell about a situation that I feel is an undercover racial "attack", they don't believe me and say I'm just being paranoid, etc.
LIke, I could be waiting in line at a register, then someone (white) will come and try to stand in front of me, the salesperson looks at them and starts to help them, well I was standing there first! I just look at both the salesperson and other customer dead in their face until they have to acknowledge me, and then I get to go first.
these types of things happen ocassionally but I use it as an example. Since the overt racism, name-calling, etc, can't generally be used anymore, I feel there are other, subtle, ways whites show their disdain for blacks.

Originally Posted by ArthurOPodd

In the circles we've moved in, professionals with degrees, there is little or no overt racism like name calling or such. But subtle racism is overwhelming. The "Good Ol' Boy" networks abound. If you are a minority or a woman, do not hold your breath waiting for advancement, even in a Government position.

My (Black) wife's supervisors literally told her to her face (the only black woman in the office at the time) that they would not support her for advancement. They routinely denied her the opportunity to work on computer related job requirements at home on the early release school days, but allowed a white "Good Ol' Boy" without school age children to work from home more often than she'd been requesting.

In the schools, we didn't see much overt racism again, but economics were a cause for "look down your nose" syndrome.

[DenverLawGal]

Peixe and Vegas: I agree with both of you. Especially about the kids/schools. What I think would be better would be increased funding in schools so that kids could travel more. Even if it was to another part of town. The perfect way would be if they could travel internationally, but I doubt that'll happen.

[PeixeGato]

Originally Posted by vegaspilgrim

International food and dance/music festivals are fun-- but they promote an extremely simplistic, stereotypical, cartoonish view of different cultures around the world (in the name of "multiculturalism," ironically). Just because somebody enjoys ethnic cuisines doesn't mean they know jack about that culture-- or even have any tolerance. Food is food.

While this may be true to a point, the fact is, people like food. And food will get people out. Let's not forget, we are talking about people who self segregate, whether consciously or not. So you aren't going to get many of them to pay attention to a symposium on race relations and multi-cultural awareness right off the bat.

I also hardly think that the dance or music aspects of a culture are "simplistic" or "cartoon-ish". To the contrary, dance and music (and yes, food) is a very integral part of many cultures and societies. And the fact that people can easily relate to these provides a window of opportunity. What you do with that opportunity from there is the key.

When most people think about cultural activities, they think of eating and dancing. So the extent you can highlight those aspects of a culture (and maybe some of the cultural centers that offer programs of the sort), you can begin the dialogue and begin to engage people.

It would also be helpful if at such festivals, there was material available that made a point of stressing the purpose of the event, i.e. cross-cultural awareness, and not just a "stuff-your-face sidewalk festival". This would take the festival beyond the typical "food fests" that most are today.

[DenverLawGal]

At Ft. Lewis, Dgo., they often have speakers come and I've gone to many. They had a former Black Panther, various hispanic leaders, once even a grand dragon from the KKK (although I protested that one). People in Dgo., especially at the college, can be much more liberal though and interested in these things. I don't know if this stuff would work here.

[PeixeGato]

I guess that depends on what your definition of "work" is. If you are questioning whether they would "work" in bringing people out to attend, I'm thinking the general population would not be terribly interested.

If, on the other hand, by "work", you mean does it get those who DO decide to come out and attend to engage in a meaningful discussion, then yes, I think it could "work".

Am I thinking too much on this?

[DenverLawGal]

Nah, not too much thinking. I mean work by getting people interested. And yeah, even in Dgo. the turnout was not huge. Sometimes it was, just not on a consistent basis.

[ArthurOPodd]

My question is: What works?

The "diversity" lectures, pamphlets, quizzes, training ad nauseum just don't change peoples minds. I know for a fact that the company my wife worked for had diversity training every year. It barely made them even pretend to cover their tracks. Any complaints are handled by "mediators" by contract with the employees, so they can't take it to court. The only result of my wife registering a complaint, was that the offending supervisor had to retract a negative memo. Afterward, the poor performance evaluations kept coming in retaliation.

And what was there to prevent it? This supervisor knows that all he has to do is memorize the "diversity" tests and he has documentation that he is squeaky clean.

The various festivals (greek, dragonboat, oktoberfests) in and around Denver promote tolerance at the community level, even if it's designed as a food fest, there's still a feeling that the ethnic communities are reaching out to each other, but it does not trickle up to the businesses. There is simply no enforcement and there are no consequences beyond yet another mandatory "diversity" training.

[blacksmith76]

Overall, I think Denver is extremely laid back about race compared to other places I have lived. Well, I'm from the south, so I really only have NC, GA, and FL to compare it to. I'm white, my wife is Asian American and we have a biracial kid. We rarely ever experience anything negative out here.

I will say, however, that since the election, a lot of the nuts have started to come out of the woodwork and talk a little louder, at least in the Denver 'burbs. I recently had a person at a business I have gone to for years tell me that "people with tans" caused the financial crisis. I was really shocked, mainly because the guy knows my wife and kid. Somehow, he appeared to be just as shocked when they received my letter saying that we wouldn't be coming back (my wife doesn't count as "tanned", or I wouldn't get offended because I'm white, or ...?). So, the moral is, racists are everywhere and come in all colors, shapes, and sizes. Don't let a few bad apples keep you from living where you want to live.

[FunkyMonk]

There is a lot of racism in Denver. It is not an angry, hateful racism. It is more like an ignorant, cowtown type of racism. Denver is a city that is heavily white. So it seems like a lot of the black and latino people really keep to themselves and it is not very integrated.

I am white, and when I talk to other white people in Denver they say some very ignorant things. It is not hateful, it is just naive and uneducated. The opinions of people who really need to travel a lot more. The opinions of people who have never had to interact in a diverse environment.

It goes both ways though. Some of the black people around here seem to really dislike white people too.

It seems like people here usually only date within their own race too. I'm not used to this kind of culture. Denver just isn't very integrated compared to the coastal cities. There is a much bigger stigma surrounding interracial dating for sure. But it is peaceful at least.

As for Asian people, well, there are just aren't very many of them here.