What is there to do besides outdoor activities? (Denver: high crime, neighborhood)

[steveco.]

Originally Posted by DenverAztec

You are welcome. Funny you found our downtown small when you live in Phoenix, which basically has no downtown? There are a few buildings along Central and some civic buildings around Prospect park, but nobody lives there and it is dead after 5:00 and on the weekends. They are finally getting one building in the 40 floor range and some residential construction happening, but Phoenicians prefer to live as far away from their downtown as possible. Additionally, the main industries there are call centers, which are all in the burbs. You must be thinking of someplace other then Phoenix when you say downtown Denver is small as it is the 10 largest in the country. We are no New York, San Francisco or Chicago, and life is much easier because of it.

Yes I remember going to phoenix and it giving me a weird Tech Center feel to it

[Katarina Witt]

It's pretty suburban, yeah. Lots of fundamentalist Christians there, too, if you have a problem with "them". (Please note use of quotes. I do NOT agree.)

[breethecowgirl]

Originally Posted by DenverAztec

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I never knew Denver was so European, I wouldn't have known, I haven't been there in ages.

[Katarina Witt]

I don't think I'd call Denver "European". I mean, it's Colorado! It's the wild west. If you mean urban, yes, Denver is urban. It is a big city. But I've been to Europe, and I didn't see anything there that reminded me of Denver.

[zenkonami]

I haven't seen Denver in person in a very long time, but from the pics and posts I think I understand the "European" comment. Between some of the architecture (particularly some churches), the urban planning, the nature of some of the neighborhoods with their strong identities and the heavy concentration of civic, commercial and entertainment venues downtown, there is a taste of European values...that said, all filtered very liberally through western attitudes and ideas.

Not so much similar to the larger or older European cities, but more like some of the younger, more modern small Euro cities...but like I said, that's an impression I get and until I get a close look at modern Denver I have to admit that my perspective may be a bit skewed.

[Katarina Witt]

Wider streets, more cars, more parking than anywhere I've been in Europe.

[zenkonami]

Sure, Kat, but like I said I think it's more of a vibe that comes across than any specific attributes of the city or region. By that comparison, Los Angeles has a lot of narrow roads and poor parking, but I wouldn't consider Los Angeles even remotely European in atmosphere. Paris, London and several cities in Germany have tons of cars and traffic (and even some historic German cities such as Dresden are fairly easy to park in offering a number of parking garages and ample space), but I don't consider them to have an American vibe.

I don't mean to split hairs here, and as far as vibe goes you probably have a better idea than I would about the Denver metro area because you live there, and have for some time if I understand correctly. This is just the impression I get from everything I've read and what photos I've seen lately about the city. Personally I haven't been to as many American cities that had so many parks, vibrant cultural centers (Theaters, Cinemas, Museums, Libraries) and "nearby" wilderness (and accompanying activities) as Denver seems to. The shear volume of sculpture in and around the Denver metro area alone is an impressive testament to a region that values culture. That's not to say there aren't any of the above in other American cities (a friend of mine cites Minneapolis, for example, and I most certainly understand some of those attributes in NYC or LA), but that hasn't been my experience across most major American cities. Many seem to lack that energy, even if they have the amenities.

I think the wild west thing is equally valid, but what that may mean is a little less clear (other than the wide avenues, automobile-centric growth and that independent streak.) Not meaning to disparage that, btw, because I like the west, it's history and culture, and maybe that's what seperates the two notions more than anything else, but Denver seems quite "blended" between that western thing and the european thing to me.

Just my two pennies there. Keep 'em. Rub 'em together. Throw 'em away. Whatever makes you happy today =)

[Katarina Witt]

Originally Posted by zenkonami

Sure, Kat, but like I said I think it's more of a vibe that comes across than any specific attributes of the city or region. By that comparison, Los Angeles has a lot of narrow roads and poor parking, but I wouldn't consider Los Angeles even remotely European in atmosphere. Paris, London and several cities in Germany have tons of cars and traffic (and even some historic German cities such as Dresden are fairly easy to park in offering a number of parking garages and ample space), but I don't consider them to have an American vibe.

I don't mean to split hairs here, and as far as vibe goes you probably have a better idea than I would about the Denver metro area because you live there, and have for some time if I understand correctly. This is just the impression I get from everything I've read and what photos I've seen lately about the city. Personally I haven't been to as many American cities that had so many parks, vibrant cultural centers (Theaters, Cinemas, Museums, Libraries) and "nearby" wilderness (and accompanying activities) as Denver seems to. The shear volume of sculpture in and around the Denver metro area alone is an impressive testament to a region that values culture. That's not to say there aren't any of the above in other American cities (a friend of mine cites Minneapolis, for example, and I most certainly understand some of those attributes in NYC or LA), but that hasn't been my experience across most major American cities. Many seem to lack that energy, even if they have the amenities.

Well, the Pittsburgh people also think their city very European for the same reasons. (Visit their forum some time.) IMO, both are highly American. The European cities I saw (Antwerp, Brussels, Amsterdam, Cologne and a few smaller ones in Germany) all looked very different from any American city I have ever been to. The larger ones, say Denver's size or larger, have a central square built around a cathedral, where there are lots of shops, restaurants, etc that you walk to. You do not see that in Denver, Pittsburgh, DC, Chicago, or anywhere else in the US. People in those European cities tend to live in mid-rise apts that go on for blocks, something else you don't see in US cities. Denver has probably fewer people walking around downtown that the other US cities I named, especially when you get out of the immediate downtown area. Not a lot of burbs in these European cities, whereas all the US cities are highly suburbanized. Just my opinion.
I think the wild west thing is equally valid, but what that may mean is a little less clear (other than the wide avenues, automobile-centric growth and that independent streak.) Not meaning to disparage that, btw, because I like the west, it's history and culture, and maybe that's what seperates the two notions more than anything else, but Denver seems quite "blended" between that western thing and the european thing to me.

Just my two pennies there. Keep 'em. Rub 'em together. Throw 'em away. Whatever makes you happy today =)

I think you've got the wild west thing pretty accurately. I do think Denver has a lot of neat features of some of the older, eastern cities, such as a vibrant neighborhood system, but so does Portland, OR, so I have heard.

[DenverLawGal]

It doesn't seem like many people answered your question here. I wanted to give my thoughts as I qualify as a non-outdoorsy person (to the mountains anyway!)

I think some of whether you will like it here depends on where you are coming from and what kind of person you are.

For me, I'm in my 30s and have been living here all of my life. I find that I do get bored often, especially in the winter, because I am not into skiing or hiking or fishing, and the winter makes me just want to huddle up at home.

There are a lot of urban things to do here, but I think I've about done them all. So for a new person, you'll probably love it here for quite some time.

One thing that's tough for me is that not only am I a non-outdoorsy person, but Denver is very landlocked and somewhat isolated. There really aren't any other cities to visit nearby, only small towns, and that loses it's luster for me rather quickly. Hope this helps.

Originally Posted by sweettearose

I've recently been approached by my company for a position there and I know nothing about it. I've heard great things about it. If you are not an outdoors person is there anything to do there? Forgive me, but the downtown seems rather small and there doesn't seem to have much diversity or any urban feel to the city at all. What is the political climate like there. Are there any liberal non-conservative people there? Is the snow as bad as they say?

[EastSideMKE]

Originally Posted by sweettearose

I've recently been approached by my company for a position there and I know nothing about it. I've heard great things about it. If you are not an outdoors person is there anything to do there? Forgive me, but the downtown seems rather small and there doesn't seem to have much diversity or any urban feel to the city at all. What is the political climate like there. Are there any liberal non-conservative people there? Is the snow as bad as they say?

If you're not outdoorsy YOU WILL HATE DENVER. Everyone on this board makes the claim that Denver has the 10th largest downtown in the country, but that claim is very deceptive. According to the Denver Metro Convention and Visitors Bureau, that figure is based upon total retail and office space, not number of city blocks occupied. Downtown Denver is a long narrow strip, with relatively tall office towers; its bordered to the south by 15th st, Broadway to the east, 19th to the north, and Wynkoop to the west. In contrast, Milwaukee's downtown occupies twice as much land as Denver's does, but since the buildings are shorter they have less total retail/office space, but their downtown "feels" larger. Downtown Milwaukee has more trees and parks, apartment buildings, restaurants, schools, churches, grocery stores, but has less open lots and therefore has a denser, more urban feel. Also size doesn't equal substance. The State St. Ped Mall in Madison, WI offers much better retail and restaurant choices than Denver's 16th St. Mall. And 16th St. isn't even in the same universe as Michigan Ave. in Chicago or Peachtree St. in Atlanta.

As far as politics Denver is definitely not flaming liberal. I find most people to be disengaged from the whole political process. You're more likely to find people unwilling to offer an opinion one way or the other. Which I personally can't stand. The suburbs are extremely conservative and dwarf the city proper, so the overall vibe is conservative. Obama is leading in CO right now but he's also leading in NC, IN, and VA too so don't pat yourselves on the back too hard now.

Basically if you want an intellectual, liberal, diverse, urbane crowd, you're not going to find it here. I'm moving away in December. CO is more for SUV driving, gated subdivision living, Evangelical Christian, Republican, NRA types.