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Pros cons of older versus newer areas of Denver, Aurora areas; looking for housing information, lot sizes, home maintenance, established versus new neighborhoods
I have been researching various areas, as well as having had a few visits, and would like to know others' viewpoints or pros and cons. Specifically, what do you think of areas like Parker or Southeast Aurora vs. older sections of Centennial and Littleton? Here are some of my ideas of what could be pros and cons:
Parker/Southeast Aurora:
--Pros would include nice, affordable newer homes. Close to my relatives in Aurora.
--Cons would include continuous growth. Homes appear closer together with smaller yards. Further from mountains.
Older Centennial/Littleton:
--Pros would include larger lots. No Growth (well-established neighborhoods). Mature trees. Good school district with smaller class sizes (Littleton Public).
--Cons would include homes that are more expensive and considerably older.
I know I'm missing lots of other points, so if anyone has an opinion, let me know! Thanks.
Personally, I prefer newer construction. More energy efficient, less maintenance, and more open floor plans, and generally more family friendly (more kids around). Of course there are disadvantages, like smaller lots (usually), few (or no) mature trees, and more likely to have an HOA (though having an HOA can be also be an advantage to some in protecting property values).
Some prefer the "charm" of an older home. However, unless they have been updated and maintained well, then they can cost you a lot of $$$. Does the roof need to be replaced? Does the heating and cooling system need to be replaced? Are the kitchens and bathrooms updated? Are the windows dual paned and not producing drafts? Is the room layout closed in (walls everywhere)? Or course, there are other big dollar items that could also crop up with an older home.
Our last home was an older home (1959), which was in San Diego, and took a lot of work. We had to insulate it (not a lick of insulation anywhere), install central heat and air (only had a wall furnace and a window air conditioner), I practically rewired the whole house (old two conductor wiring with no ground wire), and gutted and redid the kitchen. It was a lot of work and money. Our current house was only 5 yrs old when we moved in and hasn't needed much maintenace. After all of that work on our last home, I'm glad to not have so much work to do.
Last edited by gpraceman; 09-27-2007 at 08:58 AM..
All things being equal, a new home is preferable in some ways. Everyone likes that shiny new home look, and as stated there's usually not too much work needed for move-in.
However, in my opinion, all things usually aren't equal. From my perspective, new homes, like new cars or new anything, are rarely a "good deal." Sometimes great deals can be had on spec homes, don't get me wrong. But usually, you're paying a "new house premium" that evaporates once you move in and it's not a "new house" any more.
Location is a huge factor. Putting it this way: earlier generations of builders got to choose the prime locations for their houses. Today's builders have to take whatever is left over. The lot valuations are instructive -- an older home might have up to 50-60% of its value as land value. A home in the city might have as much as 90%-100% of its value as lot value (this is why you see scrape-offs). A new home, maybe 10%, and that only because of the developer expense for utility connections.
Resale value is another factor. Given the dismal forecast for the home market, a new home anywhere in the neighborhood is almost certain to drop in value over the next few years. If things get really bad, that drop could be substantial. Quality older neighborhoods are unlikely to drop unless things get really bad. Many of the Denver historic neighborhoods are continuing to rise at a double-digit appreciation rate even in a down market. It's clear what the market values at the moment: quality, close-in, established neighborhoods. That could change on a dime, of course, but that seems where things are headed now.
Another factor is that it's very hard to see how a brand new neighborhoods will turn out. If you look at the most desirable suburban or city neighborhoods, it would have been difficult at the time that they were built to predict whether they would be the most desirable neighborhoods or not. After about 10-20 years, it's pretty clear where the neighborhood is going, and at that point it's unlikely to change. The list of the best neighborhoods in the metro area doesn't change much, because the ones that were the best neighborhoods before are probably the same neighborhoods now. Now, maybe your new home community will one day join that list of "best neighbohoods" -- but how do you know?
Also, I would contend that a well-maintained, updated, and cared for resale home can sometimes need less work than a new home. In a new home, you rarely get landscaping in the back and sides but are usually required by the HOA to do landscaping within 12 months. That can be a significant expense. Things are usually in better shape on the interior, but you still have to purchase window coverings and a number of other things that are likely included standard with a resale home. Those expenses are cash out of your pocket. Other expenses, like that of an A/C, are often not included with a new home but usually are with a resale home.
As far as cost goes, an apples-to-apples comparison between a brand new home and a resale home will nearly always see the resale cheaper. You noted that resale homes in Littleton were more expensive than new homes in SE Aurora. That's because the resale home is in Littleton, which is a much more sought after location. If you find a resale home in SE Aurora, apples-to-apples it'll likely cheaper than a new home. If not, the seller may be in denial or you may have found a steal of a deal on the new home in question.
So, the bottom line is that it can depend, there are good deals to be found on new homes. But you have to be aware of other factors as well. In my view, you're more likely to find better overall value in a resale home.
I agree. I prefer newer construction as opposed to new construction. When we bought our house, it was 5 yrs old back in 2004. It was old enough that we could see if there were foundation issues and see what direction the neighborhood was heading. We didn't have to worry about replacing or upgrading things (except due to taste) or about having high maintenance costs like we faced with our 1959 home in San Diego.
With new construction, there are lots of issues. In general, they do cost more. You have to put in a back yard generally, get window coverings, put in a patio, paint the plain vanilla walls, decorate and so on. Will the foundation crack due to the CO expansive soils? Then you face having to disclose a cracked foundation when trying to sell. Everyone has tiny trees. Most of the lots are so small that you can't put trees between houses for privacy. And so on...
As far as the neighborhood goes, it seems like some areas that are as little as 2 years old are having lots of foreclosures, lots of homes for sale, lots of homes being rented out. That really changes the look and feel of a neighborhood. Our neighborhood in contrast, has had few homes for sale this year (seems people are staying put) and few, if any, rentals. Maybe that won't be so much of an issue with people moving into new homes right now (with the tightened lending) but who knows.
Builders are making it awfully tempting, though. They are offering big incentives to move their overload of inventory. A friend of mine put in an offer on a new home in Castle Rock for $100K less than the builder was asking and they accepted. That included some upgrades like backyard landscaping and better tile in the bathrooms. The house already had lots upgrades (hardwood floors, slab granite counters, upgraded appliances). They even threw in a nice refrigerator. He paid less than many of his neighbors did who bought earlier. I helped him move into it this last weekend.
Thank you for your responses. You've given me a number of things to consider--which only makes things even more confusing! First of all, I realize that once we find jobs, that will be a determining factor as to where we may want to live. However, I wanted to leave that detail out, and just focus on what may be more desirable in the long run.
I also should have clarified what I meant by newer home. Newer to me is anything built within the last 10-15 years. I am not interested in a brand-new home, and would prefer one that's been lived-in.
gpraceman: You have offered some interesting points. I tend to be sometimes attracted to the older homes, but acknowledge they can be a real pain. Our home in Southern California was built in 1961. We call it the "Money Pit". Since moving in nearly 6 years ago, we have spent several thousands on various repairs, mostly plumbing. (The idiot that lived here before us decided to wash grout down the drain after attempting to update the bathroom tile. Nothing like solidified grout in your pipes!) We also have a roof that leaks occasionally, popcorn acoustic ceilings, and various other projects that still need to be addressed. We have certainly improved a number of things, such as putting in dual-pane windows, but it was a complete nightmare when we first moved in. (We also had black, triangular iron marks all over the carpet, which needed to be replaced immediately)
Next time around, I hope to not be in a major fixer-upper.
tfox:I agree that if the older home has been updated, is in an area that is considered more desirable, and has steady appreciation, then an older home could work. Location certainly is a huge factor. We now live about 25 miles east of Los Angeles. Homes here were all built in the 50's and 60's. However, our home is now worth over double what we paid for it 6 years ago. Why? Because it's closer to many jobs, and our town also has a Metrolink train station, which makes commuting to L.A. much more pleasant. New homes have been popping up further east from us--Temecula area and out in the desert. The homes are gorgeous, but the locations stink, in my opinion.
I plan to take yet another trip to Colorado to scope out some areas again. (Gee, I've only been researching for a year and a half now! ) But this is a huge move for us, and we expect our next home to be where we stay put for a very long time.
By the way, I know I've mentioned this before--but the reason I've been focusing mainly on Littleton/Centennial as well as Parker/Southeast Aurora is due to the fact that we would like to be near family in north Aurora. However, a half hour drive to see them would be O.K. I just had thought that if Southeast Aurora (near either Trails West Elementary or Rolling Hills Elementary) seemed to be a nice area, then obviously that would be a quicker jaunt to see relatives than some parts of Littleton. However, I do not want to sacrifice a better area overall for convenience, if that were the case.
gpraceman: You have offered some interesting points. I tend to be sometimes attracted to the older homes, but acknowledge they can be a real pain. Our home in Southern California was built in 1961. We call it the "Money Pit". Since moving in nearly 6 years ago, we have spent several thousands on various repairs, mostly plumbing. (The idiot that lived here before us decided to wash grout down the drain after attempting to update the bathroom tile. Nothing like solidified grout in your pipes!) We also have a roof that leaks occasionally, popcorn acoustic ceilings, and various other projects that still need to be addressed. We have certainly improved a number of things, such as putting in dual-pane windows, but it was a complete nightmare when we first moved in. (We also had black, triangular iron marks all over the carpet, which needed to be replaced immediately)
Next time around, I hope to not be in a major fixer-upper.
Seems we had similar SoCal "Money Pits". We added the insulation and central heat and air. The house was much more comfortable after that, but we couldn't afford to replace the single pane windows. I don't know how the previous owners could have lived in that house for 26 years the way it was originally. The summers there get 100+ and in winter it can get down to freezing. We also had plumbing issues. A couple of burst pipes due to high water pressure and a faulty pressure regulator.
We also had some issues with the previous owner's remodeling attempts (garage conversion to family room). Though, it was interesting what we found stuffed in the walls (beer bottles, newspapers from the 70's and some other junk).
We also have an older home but the "bones" have been extensively updated by the previous owner (we're the third owner). New windows, new Trane furnace and A/C, new gutters, new electrical, new roof, updated bathrooms.
We're working on finishing the basement, remodeling the kitchen and refinishing the hardwood floors. Still a chunk of money but we love the location, the backyard (WAY bigger than our postage stamp subdivision lot) and the (potential) appreciation once Arista and commuter rail are complete.
We've also owned a new home and the warranty was great. We liked the house, but the yard was very small, our neighbors all knew which options we had in our house (because they toured it while it was being built), and the general age of the neighborhood was too young for us. We're a young family but we don't like subdivisions full of other young families. It's a clique that is hard to shake because all the families and children are expected to be instant friends. The make-up of our current neighborhood fits us a lot better.
We also have an older home but the "bones" have been extensively updated by the previous owner (we're the third owner). New windows, new Trane furnace and A/C, new gutters, new electrical, new roof, updated bathrooms.
We're working on finishing the basement, remodeling the kitchen and refinishing the hardwood floors. Still a chunk of money but we love the location, the backyard (WAY bigger than our postage stamp subdivision lot) and the (potential) appreciation once Arista and commuter rail are complete.
We've also owned a new home and the warranty was great. We liked the house, but the yard was very small, our neighbors all knew which options we had in our house (because they toured it while it was being built), and the general age of the neighborhood was too young for us. We're a young family but we don't like subdivisions full of other young families. It's a clique that is hard to shake because all the families and children are expected to be instant friends. The make-up of our current neighborhood fits us a lot better.
I find your last three sentences intriguing because we now live in a neighborhood that consists mostly of retired folks who have lived here for years. There are kids around somewhere, since the elementary school where my kids go has 985 students (and no, we're not year-round, so they're all there at the same time--it works, though and honestly doesn't seem that crowded) Anyway, I tend to agree that the neighborhoods with all the young families could possibly be a problem. I kind of like my retired neighbors--they're friendly, down-to-earth, stop to talk as they're walking their dogs, and are genuinely interested in others. I know I don't want to be somewhere where everyone is trying to keep up with the Joneses. I also don't want to feel pressured into being "best" friends with every family in the neighborhood. I like meeting new people, as long as it comes naturally and is not forced. I know a lot of people love Highlands Ranch for its amenities and family-friendly reputation. I have to say, though, that if it's really yuppie-like and competitive or clique-ish, it definitely isn't for me. I drive a Ford Windstar van with chipping paint--and I don't expect to be purchasing something much cooler for quite some time.
I know a lot of people love Highlands Ranch for its amenities and family-friendly reputation. I have to say, though, that if it's really yuppie-like and competitive or clique-ish, it definitely isn't for me. I drive a Ford Windstar van with chipping paint--and I don't expect to be purchasing something much cooler for quite some time.
We've lived in HR for 4 years now and don't find it competitive and clique-ish. It is a middle to upper class area, so some may call that "yuppie-like".
Personally, I'm not about to try to keep up with the Joneses. Until last year I was driving around in a '92 Integra with oxidized paint and missing some trim. We still have it (parked right in front of our house for all to see). Daughter's driving that now. I'm driving an '07 Pilot now, since I wanted something better in the snow. I could have bought an Acura MDX, but why? It's more money, takes premium gas and is less roomy. Wife's been driving her '00 minivan with one hub cap missing. None of our neighbors has complained. I think they could care less.
Can you find neighborhoods in HR where people are trying to out do each other? Probably so. You can also find that in Lone Tree, Parker, Castle Rock, Littleton, Centennial, and yada yada yada. That's why you should always try to get a feel for a neighborhood before you move there.
Personally, I'd say hop in your Windstar and come check out the area for yourself.
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) But this is a huge move for us, and we expect our next home to be where we stay put for a very long time. 
50s Ranch All the Way!
