solar energy (power lines, appliances, how much)

[lh_newbie]

Yes, Bostonian meant that he selected a 100% renewable plan. Right now, it's really one of the best financial options for us in Texas (as far an electricity goes).

Some math and info regarding solar electricity on homes:

A solar PV array, for generating electricity, costs about $8 per panel watt, installed. The average home in Texas uses something like 12,000 to 13,000 KwH per year. To generate this, you'll need roughly a 6,500 watt system if you have a perfect Southern exposure. 6,500 watts X $8/watt = $52,000. There's a 30% federal tax credit for such a system, so you're talking $36,400 after federal rebate. If you live in Frisco, you'll probably have an issue with your HOA. While there is legal precident in other states in which a judge ruled that HOA's cannot restrict solar panel arrays, one has not been established in Texas yet. Doing a little further math... if the system were to run PERFECTLY for 25 years and only need standard maintenance (inverters are expected to last only 10 years, so you'd need to replace a roughly $3K inverter twice during the array's life) - a 6.5Kw array will put out roughly 12,000 KwH per year in our area for an initial cost of $36,400 + $6,000 of inverters. If it did that for 25 years, we're talking 300,000KwH total over it's lifespan. At $42,400, that averages out to 14.2 cents per KwH. So, while that is roughly the same price you pay for a "green energy plan" - it is a lot of money to plunk out to just "match" the pre-existing price - which, keep in mind, is portable from home to home - where a solar array is not. (and your only option if in a high rise or apartment)

If price per watt, installed, were to drop to $5 (from the current $8) - the price per KwH over it's live drops to 9.6 cents/kwH - now, we'd be talking.

I've been watching the solar PV industry for quite some time. There are some very interesting things going on. Some technologies have the promise of lowering the price over the next few years. I feel we could see financial returns and see a movement toward this technology. At the very least, I am hopeful we will see it.

Bostonian - we are putting money aside for a vehicle like the Chevy Volt. Neither my wife nor my commute would deplete the batteries, so we would rarely ever kick in the gas generator - most likely only on the weekends if we go visit family on the other side of the metro... and then, only on the way home. I love the concept.

[Dog Gone Poop]

Aptera get on the waiting list for 500$ because when they do hit the market you better be on it or it could take a while to get one...way to go killer....

[lh_newbie]

Originally Posted by Dog Gone Poop

Aptera get on the waiting list for 500$ because when they do hit the market you better be on it or it could take a while to get one...way to go killer....

IMO - Aptera is a niche market. It won't sell in any appreciable numbers. Neat concept - just not applicable to the general public.

[Macbeth2003]

Originally Posted by lh_newbie

Yes, Bostonian meant that he selected a 100% renewable plan. Right now, it's really one of the best financial options for us in Texas (as far an electricity goes).

It really is a good financial option. We have a 100% renewable plan, and I think we calculated that the difference between the lowest long term non renewable plan we could find, and the lowest long term renewable plan should come to around $20-$30 a year.

[cdelena]

Originally Posted by Bostonian08

When I moved here, my landlord directed me to this site:

Power to Choose

By entering my zip code, I got offers from 80 companies from which I could receive my energy. Many of them were 100% green. I chose a 100% green company and now give all my money to the green energy company.

If you want to get off the oil dependency, I suggest you do the same, and pass this link to everyone you think might also want to do the same.

You might also find it interesting that T Boone Pickens is spending 3 billion building windmills. More here:

http://www.pickensplan.com/index.php...930&page=white

If you read the facts label from your provider you will see you bought a statement and financial arrangement that may support clean power... not necessarily clean power.

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• Customers who choose *** electricity will not have electricity from a specific generation facility delivered directly to their ESI ID, but they are able to support generators of cleaner energy that provide electricity to regional power systems in an amount equal to the applicable percentage of the customer's usage.

• Renewable resource availability varies hour to hour and from season to season, as does our customers' use. We will rely on system power from the grid to serve our customers' minute by minute consumption but will cause enough of the applicable *** blend to be delivered to regional power systems to match our customers' actual electricity purchases.

• By purchasing and retiring renewable energy certificates or attributes from specific facilities we ensure that electricity from promised renewable resources equal to your annual electricity usage for which you've paid is delivered to power systems serving Texas and other states in the region. We may take up to three months following the close of a calendar year to make up any deficiency in a particular resource promised in connection with the electricity product you choose.

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BTW, Pickens is looking to get federal subsidies on wind in order to sell natural gas. Worldwide there is a big demand for natural gas generation facilities to back up wind fields since wind is intermittent. The largest wind developments (Spain and Germany) have seen a huge jump in the construction of power plants that can be fired up quickly... natural gas.

[xS☺B☺s]

Originally Posted by cdelena

If you read the facts label from your provider you will see you bought a statement and financial arrangement that may support clean power... not necessarily clean power.

---

• Customers who choose *** electricity will not have electricity from a specific generation facility delivered directly to their ESI ID, but they are able to support generators of cleaner energy that provide electricity to regional power systems in an amount equal to the applicable percentage of the customer's usage.

• Renewable resource availability varies hour to hour and from season to season, as does our customers' use. We will rely on system power from the grid to serve our customers' minute by minute consumption but will cause enough of the applicable *** blend to be delivered to regional power systems to match our customers' actual electricity purchases.

• By purchasing and retiring renewable energy certificates or attributes from specific facilities we ensure that electricity from promised renewable resources equal to your annual electricity usage for which you've paid is delivered to power systems serving Texas and other states in the region. We may take up to three months following the close of a calendar year to make up any deficiency in a particular resource promised in connection with the electricity product you choose.

---

BTW, Pickens is looking to get federal subsidies on wind in order to sell natural gas. Worldwide there is a big demand for natural gas generation facilities to back up wind fields since wind is intermittent. The largest wind developments (Spain and Germany) have seen a huge jump in the construction of power plants that can be fired up quickly... natural gas.

Yeah I know. But it's the right direction to go. There's not enough wind power right now to power the state of Texas, but my contribution helps to encourage those investing in clean energy to continue to do so.

Yeah I know about T Boone too. Nonetheless, if the guy is building windmills, I'm with him.

[xS☺B☺s]

Originally Posted by lh_newbie

Bostonian - we are putting money aside for a vehicle like the Chevy Volt. Neither my wife nor my commute would deplete the batteries, so we would rarely ever kick in the gas generator - most likely only on the weekends if we go visit family on the other side of the metro... and then, only on the way home. I love the concept.

That's part of my plan too. I will be pleased when the day comes that I plug my car in to recharge knowing every penny I spend recharging will go to people building windmills.

Imagine a solar panel the size of the sahara desert...

[lh_newbie]

It's probably worth noting that in Texas, solar has a very positive long term benefit.

Short (relatively) background on why:

In Texas, we have very large "peaks" of demand. Electricity generators have to build enough generation (coal/natural gas/solar/wind/whatever) capacity to handle peak demand. If not, we get brownouts. The downside to this is that you can't flick a power plant on and off like you can a light bulb. The reason? They basically use coal and natural gas to heat water to create steam to run steam turbines (how's that for a simplified explanation). It takes a long time to bring such a large system online. Therefore, they basically run the plants the entire day, just to handle the peak demand. This is where solar comes in nicely. In Texas, in particularly in the summer, our largest peak demands are in the middle of the day due to our use of air conditioning. Why do we need AC? Because the sun heats the atmosphere up in the middle of the day. Solar power generates power exactly when we need it the most - meaning power companies can run less "regular" plants to handle the "base load" - or lowest usage at night.

This is actually one of the big beefs with wind. If looking at a small geographical area, power companies can't really rely on wind to help with peak load. Sometimes it's there, sometimes it's not. In many areas, wind blows stronger at night - exactly when it's needed the least. This is where large transmission lines connecting far flung lands can be connected come into play. Theoretically, if we intertwine the entire US, if an area has too much wind power and can't use it, they will simply put it on the "grid" and have it sent to an area that does need it. Our grid, in it's current form, lacks the capacity to handle this on a large scale that would be needed for this to function properly. We are in the process of building many large transmission lines (i.e. one from the TX Panhandle into the North TX region), but we do not have a plan to interconnect those relatively short transmission lines.

Hope this helps people to understand some of the challenges/benefits. If the price of solar panels drop from their current $5/watt to $2/watt or under - I think we'd toss a 5,000 watt array on our roof, which would cover about 60% of our usage (unfortunately, we lose about 25% of what it could generate due to imperfect orientation due to trees - if we could face it south, it would cover 85% of our average usage). Most importantly, during "peak demand", we would actually generate 2-3x what we use, feeding the grid when it needs it the most.

[Greatday]

Our home, a little over a year old, is "off the grid" entirely. We are totally solar powered - everything including the swimming pool. To be fair, we live in a rural area, on acreage, in the desert, and have the sun and room for the amount of solar arrays necessary

We have a battery backup system - "just in case". And, if push comes to shove, a backup generator. But, to date, neither has been used (except for the purpose of testing.

So far - so good. The tax credits, from Federal and State and Utility companies paid for a vast majority of the system.

No utility bills - wonderful!

[lh_newbie]

Texas doesn't have state credits and our utilities also don't offer credits. If we were in a state that did (in California, between the state and federal rebates - systems cost about 50% off of "list" price), things would be different. I'm all for the environmental benefits of solar - but if looking at them from a purely financial perspective, in Texas, they don't make a sound return - UNLESS you are in an off-grid situation where it would cost $10K or more to get lines extended to your home. Then - it can make financial sense.

Brian