Plano East Senior High vs any Frisco ISD High School? (Lewisville: homes, neighborhood)

[DitsyD]

Originally Posted by TurtleCreek80

It's not just about "my kid making NMSF". A high % of class making NMSF and a large number of grads getting into elite colleges indicates one thing -> a culture of success. I wasn't NMSF and didn't go to Harvard, but my classmates did. Being in the same AP Biology or AP English class with that caliber of students (even if it's just 10 of the 20 students in the section) elevates the classroom discussion and study groups to a higher level. High school teachers with PhD's in their AP subject raises teaching to a higher level. Just being enrolled in the class and doing the work benefits ALL students in the section, not just the 10 who are NMSF or the one kid who got into Yale.

When a critical mass of kids working at that level isn't there, all students are deprived the chance to be challenged and to rise up to a higher level.

Amen.

[GripeWater]

If you have open enrllment & thousands of students then maintaing 80% NMS can be an impossible goal. However, average kids thrive in a culture of hard work and excellence. Teachers step up and district finds formulas to keep up. Sure you can home school your kid or get a tutor or have your own one person spelling bee competition but that's not what most people are aiming for. Of course Plano sends a big group to their local community college because belive it or not we have students who can't afford fancy college tuition and rather have free or cheap ride.

[TX75007]

Originally Posted by Bigger G

Plano East as they may be weakest link in PISD yet perform significantly higher than Frisco schools. Their crown jewel is International Baccalaureate program that is based their to lure some high performers from West Plano. It is one notch higher than AP program..

Actually, the AP program is a notch above the IB as the AP classes get students more credits at college. If you look through what OU or UTD or UT will credit for AP vs IB, AP wins by a factor of 2:1. The AP program is also quite broad with a large STEM component unlike IB.

As for the OP, right now Frisco is under performing for its demographics. That may change in time. PESH still graduates a larger number of high end kids which suggests that its program is very deep. For every NMSF kid, there will be 5 others who go to medical school or other similar high end careers - and that cannot occur without a great program in HS.

[TX75007]

Originally Posted by TurtleCreek80

When a critical mass of kids working at that level isn't there, all students are deprived the chance to be challenged and to rise up to a higher level.

I was one of my HS NMSF kids. It was the #2 HS in the state. We had a full honors section. Most of the kids in that section did not make NMSF. But ALL the kids in my honors section have either PHDs, MSe, or JDs. One of the non-NMSFs is an executive at Disney. Another is a General. Two are leading doctors. Another is a full professor at Stanford.

The group dynamics in the section led everyone to work hard. Our teachers had Masters degrees and there was one PHD. We deeply respected their knowledge. They pushed us. Everyone worked hard - and we helped each other -mostly the smartest kids explaining things to everyone else - but there were surprises..and this made us learn so much better. We worked harder as a result, we mastered the subjects as a result, and we supported each other. Just knowing my classmates were studying late made me study too. I wanted to be prepared the next day. I wanted to blow their socks off with my work. I wanted to see what others came up with.

That work ethic, the earned self-confidence, the intellectual horsepower, and the love of learning has stuck with us for almost 30 years.

Expectations. Peers. Curriculum.

[TX75007]

Originally Posted by GripeWater

If you have open enrllment & thousands of students then maintaing 80% NMS can be an impossible goal. However, average kids thrive in a culture of hard work and excellence. Teachers step up and district finds formulas to keep up. Sure you can home school your kid or get a tutor or have your own one person spelling bee competition but that's not what most people are aiming for. Of course Plano sends a big group to their local community college because belive it or not we have students who can't afford fancy college tuition and rather have free or cheap ride.

Great synopsis. Society advances by ordinary people doing their best.

[frenzyrider]

So 2013 NMSF puts 2% of kids at Liberty high getting NMSF vs. 2.5% of class at PESH. How is PESH significantly better than Liberty High. What am I missing? In fact, I see Liberty High improving every year. I remember not too long ago FM was not considered highly by many on this board but it has clearly blown everybody out of the water...

OP, the fact is schools will and can change over time. Plano, coppell, HP have been consistently good over time. But it does not mean other school districts will not come up. If you have kids going to high school in the next 5 years then u will be better served with PESH. Anyways, avg home ownership is less than 7 years so who knows where someone will be if ur kid is not going to HS for another 10 years!

[synchronicity]

Originally Posted by frenzyrider

So 2013 NMSF puts 2% of kids at Liberty high getting NMSF vs. 2.5% of class at PESH. How is PESH significantly better than Liberty High. What am I missing? In fact, I see Liberty High improving every year. I remember not too long ago FM was not considered highly by many on this board but it has clearly blown everybody out of the water...

OP, the fact is schools will and can change over time. Plano, Coppell, HP have been consistently good over time. But it does not mean other school districts will not come up. If you have kids going to high school in the next 5 years then u will be better served with PESH. Anyways, avg home ownership is less than 7 years so who knows where someone will be if ur kid is not going to HS for another 10 years!

Actually, TC80 posted the data comparing 1998 (or maybe it was 1999) to today, and almost all of the schools in the top 10 were relatively unchanged. A few of the Richardson schools had dropped significantly (used to be top 10 and other than Pearce, nowhere near), but the top schools back then were still Highland Park, Plano (although I believe West hadn't been created yet so it was just "Plano Senior"), Carroll, Coppell, FM and so on. The lack of movement was quite notable.

As to Liberty's NMSF, maybe they'll maintain that, but IIRC it was just one year, don't have results over longer period at hand but maybe others do. Frisco schools still have SAT/ACT results significantly lower than PESH (PESH is consistently ~1120 on SAT V+M, top Frisco schools hit ~1080).

Who knows, things can change in the next 10-15 years, but I'd still be inclined to favor PESH over Frisco ISD if we're just talking about school performance.

[frenzyrider]

Originally Posted by synchronicity

Actually, TC80 posted the data comparing 1998 (or maybe it was 1999) to today, and almost all of the schools in the top 10 were relatively unchanged. A few of the Richardson schools had dropped significantly (used to be top 10 and other than Pearce, nowhere near), but the top schools back then were still Highland Park, Plano (although I believe West hadn't been created yet so it was just "Plano Senior"), Carroll, Coppell, FM and so on. The lack of movement was quite notable.

As to Liberty's NMSF, maybe they'll maintain that, but IIRC it was just one year, don't have results over longer period at hand but maybe others do. Frisco schools still have SAT/ACT results significantly lower than PESH (PESH is consistently ~1120 on SAT V+M, top Frisco schools hit ~1080).

Who knows, things can change in the next 10-15 years, but I'd still be inclined to favor PESH over Frisco ISD if we're just talking about school performance.

OK. I don't. Just simply I agree to disagree with you on PESH to be a better prospect than Frisco schools.

[Sushi cake]

Actually PESH is a great school, their only disadvantage is higher percentage of economically disadvantaged students. Yet they perform better than every single Frisco school. Their IB program is one of the best in DFW and new Health Academy is a great program. Don't underestimate them just because they are always compared against two top DFW schools of Plano West & Plano Sr.

[Bigger G]

Just one clarification, all students including ones enrolled in IB can and do take AP courses but only IB students can take IB courses.