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I also noted that in the newsweek rankings Marcus in flower mound was dead last.
If I look at Prosper, according to USWR, the rank is 51/52 with plano senior at 51..and mckinney is a couple of spots behind.
But between my own research and reading whats on the board..Prosper seems to be climbing the rankings (almost as if the frisco 'area' was skipped over completely').
Some of the old threads did said that lovejoy wasnt really that great...but both schools appear to be heading in the right direction.
Any thoughts on this as the areas (esp prosper)...are quite new. Allen also made the list on both as well.
Not trying to bring up a debate on the usual subjects of PW, southlake, coppell. But I am curious to know if these areas are putting a focus on education to create a future track record..something that I see frisco hasnt been able to do yet (at least from what I am reading).
Not trying to bring up a debate on the usual subjects of PW, southlake, coppell. But I am curious to know if these areas are putting a focus on education to create a future track record..something that I see frisco hasnt been able to do yet (at least from what I am reading).
Just posted out of curiousity...
No. Most of the kids living in those districts moved in from elsewhere. And both towns have a majority of upper middle class families so those kids will naturally do well, aka "Southlake Effect" where the kids get the benefit of parents who tutor them and support them and who value education in general.
if you dig deeper and look at the National Merit counts and percentages, you will see Prosper and Lovejoy perform below average. If they were blowing the barn doors off, you would have 3-5% of the graduating class as NMSF. That means that while the parents and schools are providing a good exposure to education, they do not have high expectations nor do they provide the kind of sequenced curriculum that will push the kids.
As perspective on a program with very high expectations, I graduated from one. The kids who had "just" 1250 on their SATs in such a school are now doctors and senior executives. They all say that had they gone to a different school, they would not be who they are today.
I like to read through the reviews for a particular school. If you see some parents complaining about the workload, then that is a sign that the kids are being pushed.
No. Most of the kids living in those districts moved in from elsewhere. And both towns have a majority of upper middle class families so those kids will naturally do well, aka "Southlake Effect" where the kids get the benefit of parents who tutor them and support them and who value education in general.
if you dig deeper and look at the National Merit counts and percentages, you will see Prosper and Lovejoy perform below average. If they were blowing the barn doors off, you would have 3-5% of the graduating class as NMSF. That means that while the parents and schools are providing a good exposure to education, they do not have high expectations nor do they provide the kind of sequenced curriculum that will push the kids.
As perspective on a program with very high expectations, I graduated from one. The kids who had "just" 1250 on their SATs in such a school are now doctors and senior executives. They all say that had they gone to a different school, they would not be who they are today.
I like to read through the reviews for a particular school. If you see some parents complaining about the workload, then that is a sign that the kids are being pushed.
Playing devil's advocate:
Was Plano ISD always this good? What was the performance of the ISD prior to the boom? It would be interesting to see the SAT scores from prior to 30 years ago. Was Plano kicking butt then? or was it something that happened gradually over time as the city exploded and became more affluent? If so then we owe it to the Friscos and Prospers to give them the same time frame and then see if they can match Plano's performance.
Frisco ISD is as old as Plano ISD. Just didn't expand much because of the location.
That's what I'm saying. Plano's boom started much earlier than Frisco's, so it stands to reason that the Plano's demographic became affluent (and hence better performing in school) at an earlier stage as well. Let Frisco have boomed as long as Plano then compare performances.
I just wanted to chime in and say that I appreciate this well researched and thought out question. I've been doing the same kind of research and it will be nice to see what people think.
Here are the National Merit Semifinalist numbers...
No. Most of the kids living in those districts moved in from elsewhere. And both towns have a majority of upper middle class families so those kids will naturally do well, aka "Southlake Effect" where the kids get the benefit of parents who tutor them and support them and who value education in general.
if you dig deeper and look at the National Merit counts and percentages, you will see Prosper and Lovejoy perform below average. If they were blowing the barn doors off, you would have 3-5% of the graduating class as NMSF. That means that while the parents and schools are providing a good exposure to education, they do not have high expectations nor do they provide the kind of sequenced curriculum that will push the kids.
As perspective on a program with very high expectations, I graduated from one. The kids who had "just" 1250 on their SATs in such a school are now doctors and senior executives. They all say that had they gone to a different school, they would not be who they are today.
I like to read through the reviews for a particular school. If you see some parents complaining about the workload, then that is a sign that the kids are being pushed.
Prosper and Lovejoy are not producing big numbers for National Merit....yet.LoveJoy ISD and Prosper ISD are both zoned for mostly large lot single family housing.Incan not speak much for Lovejoy ISD.Prosper is attracting a lot of transplants that have moved here for professional level jobs,My spouse and myself included. Since we built here a few years ago,the Town has exploded with growth. Almost everyone we have met since moving here choose the area for similar resins that we did,similar situation. I hint there is a good chance that Prosper ISD will excel in the future.Have numbers looked better on paper year by year already,yes.Time will tell.The formula is there as of today for the potential.
We moved here with high expectations and did an extensive amount of research on a lot of areas before deciding on Prosper. We have been very pleased with Prosper ISD. I do not know if Prosper will ever stack up to Greenwich schools.We would be fine if Prosper does not,besides for Highland Park,not many ISD's will.Like I have stated in other posts,we will not have children in Middle school for a while,High School a long time. I have no idea if our kids will be able to hang in an uber competitive environment. If they can great.If that is not the case,a great school district is perfectly fine for an academically advanced child. I would be satisfied with great not good.Stellar would be nice but not a necessity.In my opinion,bright,gifted kids will do well in great or stellar schools.
Your average upper middle class family usually can not spend over 1 million on a house.If we could spend one million plus on a house in Highland Park would we do it.....possibly.It would cost close to 2 to get anything close to what we would really want but we would still be pretty happy to get something for a little over 1 million.Since we value education and had a budget under $500,000,stellar HPISD was not an option for us.We would never rent a house there solely for the school district.If we had gifted children going into high school and the budget I am sure we certainly would think about Hiighland Park.I would still consider Towns with great schools even if I had that budget.I think many families like us end up in Prosper,Flower Mound,Fairview,Frisco and Highland Village.
I think it is laughable that we have met some parents(it seems like sometimes it is just onE of them)that think their children's academic future is already decided and guaranteed.Yes,education oriented parents have a good chance of producing a little scholar.I have met more than a few little Grayson's who are eating snot way past the age they should be and who have some major behavioral issues.....yet their parents are convinced they are going to do amazing academically.You want the best for your children,but I think remaining realistic while being optimistic is a good way to approach education and what your child could possibly be capable of. Many average kids have the potential but not the tools to be above average while some above average kids have the tools without the potential.There are many different ways it could go,some guaranteed more than others.I think it is very important to value education and do everything you can to try to ensure your children will follow in your footsteps academically.I think it is a bit far fetched to plan a house decision almost solely on superior schools.If you can get everything you feel is a need and superior schools that is a perfect situation.I will do great schools in order to have all my other needs met.I would imagine most reasonable intelligent people have somewhat reasonable needs.I would never defend people who are looking strictly for a huge bang for the buck Mc Mansion,regardless of crime,schools,topography and home quality.
Playing devil's advocate:
Was Plano ISD always this good? What was the performance of the ISD prior to the boom? It would be interesting to see the SAT scores from prior to 30 years ago. Was Plano kicking butt then? or was it something that happened gradually over time as the city exploded and became more affluent? If so then we owe it to the Friscos and Prospers to give them the same time frame and then see if they can match Plano's performance.
Playing devil's advocate:
Was Plano ISD always this good? What was the performance of the ISD prior to the boom? It would be interesting to see the SAT scores from prior to 30 years ago. Was Plano kicking butt then? or was it something that happened gradually over time as the city exploded and became more affluent? If so then we owe it to the Friscos and Prospers to give them the same time frame and then see if they can match Plano's performance.
1977 ~ Plano
I was a National Merit Scholar.
I don't have the stats, but my parents always said that they moved to Plano in 1964 for the schools.
Playing devil's advocate:
Was Plano ISD always this good? What was the performance of the ISD prior to the boom? It would be interesting to see the SAT scores from prior to 30 years ago. Was Plano kicking butt then? or was it something that happened gradually over time as the city exploded and became more affluent? If so then we owe it to the Friscos and Prospers to give them the same time frame and then see if they can match Plano's performance.
Can't find info from 30 years ago online, but did find mean SAT scores from 15 years ago (class of 1998) on the TEA site. Here's how the area public (no charters or magnets) high schools stacked up 15 years ago vs now, in terms of ranking (# rank is 1998; comments to right re: 2012).
Keep in mind, a lot of high schools have opened since 1998 (Plano W, two in McKinney, all in Frisco except Frisco HS, etc):
1. Highland Park - 1138 -> still #1 in 2012 with 1215 score
2. RISD JJ Pearce - 1138 -> #7 in 2012 with 1117
3. Plano Sr - 1129 (Plano West split off in 1999, I think) -> Plano Senior is #2 in 2012 with 1157; West is #3 with 1156
4. McKinney HS - 1128 -> #22 in 2012 with 1060
5. Southlake Carroll - 1103 -> #4 in 2012 with 1155.
6. RISD Berkner - 1097 -> #44 in 2012 with 993
7. LISD FM Marcus - 1067 -> #9 in 2012 with 1108
8. LISD Lewisville - 1060 (believe FM HS sprouted off this school?) FM is #6 in 2012; Lewisville HS is #43
9. Plano East - 1109 -> #8 in 2012 with 1114
10. Coppell - 1084 -> #5 in 2012 with 1146
11. Allen - 1060 -> #12 in 2012 with 1096; Tied with Lovejoy which split off Allen HS I think.
12. Colleyville Heritage - 1057 -> #10 in 2012 with 1101
13. RISD Richardson HS - 1055 -> #36 with 1024
14. RISD Lake Highlands - 1050 -> #37 with 1023
15. Grapevine HS - 1048 -> tie for #12 with 1096
16. Prosper- 1022 -> #24 in 2012 with 1056
17. Frisco - 1011 -> FHS #16 in 2012 with 1078 (Highest ranking Frisco school @ #14; lowest @ #33)
18. DISD Hillcrest - 1003. -> #60's in 2012 with 993
19. DISD White - 995 -> #80's in 2012 with 871
20. DISD Woodrow - 967 -> #60's in 2012 with 912
UNCHANGED (POSITIVE)
-HP remains #1 for decades
-Plano Sr '98 vs Plano Sr + West '12 remains right behind HP in #2/3 slots
-FM Marcus, Southlake Carroll, and Plano East all remain in T10 and with 2 ranks from 15 years ago
UNCHANGED (NEGATIVE)
-Allen, Frisco, & Colleyville have not changed rankings more than 1-2 slots in 15 years despite literally tens of thousands (hundreds of thousands?!) of new affluent families moving into those districts. Shows it takes MUCH, MUCH more than just new facilities and high household incomes to climb the DFW academic ladder in any meaningful way. Frisco's unchanged rank refers solely to Frisco HS (was 17, now 16)- all the additional new high schools in Frisco ISD aside from Centennial underperform the original high school to a significant degree. This strongly challenges the district's strategy of more, smaller schools IMO.
POSITIVE MOVES:
-Coppell moves up 5 spots to #5. SO underrated on this forum for no good reason.
-Prosper has moved up from 22 to 16. Still not "break out" status into T10; may take 15 more years to get there which means anyone with a kid older than the age of 3 won't reap the potential benefits of the schools....
NEGATIVE:
-All three of the once prestigious DISD high schools (Hillcrest, Woodrow, White) have really lagged in past 15 years. SAT scores actually dropped in all 3 schools despite the test being re-scored (positive trend) when the 2400pt exam rolled out. Obviously due to changing demographics in the District and also more strong students going to the magnets (or private or out of district) than staying in decent-to-good neighborhood schools 15 years ago.
-All RISD schools except Pearce (which fell, but stays in T10) really dropped off the cliff. Again, changing demographics and probably also attributed to explosion of cheaper newer housing in CoCo
-McKinney fell off the cliff, too. Know there are some demographic things going on in McKinney North (right?) district but not sure how to explain this one when Allen and Frisco stayed static.
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