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Hello all, I've been lurking on this site for some time but finally registered. Mostly looked in DC area stuff but my wife and I decided to move to the DFW area but we don't know much about that area. I know it may sound crazy but for some strange reason I've always had an interest in DFW, mainly because the cost of living seemed so much cheaper than the DC area.
Having said that, our plan is to go to a city and rent for like 6 months to get a good feel and ultimately buy a home. Some of the important factors for us is school district and a neighborhood where it would be considered more of a family environment where kids can play without having to worry about letting them out unsupervised.
Some areas we browsed on the web are Frisco, Plano, Richardson, Garland, Ft. Worth and possibly Arlington. Again, school district is our #1 priority (I realize that this usually means more expensive homes). While we don't really have a budget set on a home but it seems like $600K buys you a lot of house in the DFW area compared to the DC area.
Any help and input is greatly appreciated....oh work is not an issue in terms of commute and distance.
If I was in the $600k price range and wanted a great public school district I'd consider Plano, Frisco, Coppell, Flower Mound, Southlake, Colleyville.
If you can find an experienced RE agent they can give you a 1/2 day tour of many of these areas enough to see their location, features and educate you on the + or - 's of each city.
So much of it here depends on if you're going to be driving to another area on a regular basis.
Scratch off Arlington ISD (school district) and Ft Worth ISD.
The best public schools are Highland Park ISD, Carroll ISD, Coppell ISD, Plano ISD, Frisco ISD, Grapevine-Colleyville ISD, the Flower Mound portion of Lewisville ISD (the Hebron High zone isn't bad either). You can still good educations in other schools in other school districts. This is just a generalization. School district boundaries are independent of city boundaries, so be careful.
There are also good private schools in the area - independent, religious, schools for kids with learning disabilities and/or ADHD, Montessori, part-time schools for professional kids like actors and athletes. We have a lot of choices.
The best school district is Highland Park ISD. It draws from two independent towns (Highland Park & University Park) which are located about 5 miles north of downtown Dallas. It's like a suburb within the city with a small school district (4 elementary schools, 1 middle, 1 high). Extremely safe, very high income area where something like 98% of adults have college degrees and a high % have graduate degrees), very pretty. HP High School has the highest SAT score of any public school in North Texas and is regularly named in the top 15-30 public high schools in the US. The area is, however, VERY expensive. A "starter home", 3-4 bedroom/2-3 bathroom/ 2,500sf home on a 50x100 lot is going to run $700-900k....just to give you an idea. It's probably not less expensive than the DC area, but it's an East Coast quality school district in the area with THE lowest property tax rates in North Texas (2% for HP and a bit over 2% for UP- a $1M home in HP carried the exact same tax bill as a $700k home in Coppell, another good district with astronomical property taxes) and still other benefits of TX like no state income tax, lower gas & grocery prices, etc. Mainly zip codes 75225 & 75205 if you want to browse housing. A rental in the district will run about $2500/mo for a 3/2 duplex and $3,000+ for a home.
The next tier public schools are Carroll ISD (suburb NW of Dallas called Southlake), Plano ISD, and Coppell ISD (NW suburb but closer in than Southlake). Carroll and Coppell are both smaller districts where all kids ultimately feed into one high school. Plano is a mega district with three senior high schools (grades 11-12 only) and graduating classes of 1,100-1,500 students from each high school (vs 400 kids per class at HPHS and 600-700 at Coppell & Carroll). All are good districts with involved parents & high performing kids, they are just structured differently. Housing has a "sweet spot" of $300-600k in Plano, $500-800k in Southlake, and $400-600k in Coppell. Check property taxes as they range widely. A $500k home could have $10,000 of annual taxes in one district and $15,000 in another, depending on allowed exemptions and tax rates.
Frisco, McKinney, Allen, Colleyville-Grapevine, etc all have "good"'districts. Not great. They are rather average for the area although they are popular with relo's because they are better quality than where the relo's are moving from (Cali, big city districts like Chicago, NYC, etc). If you have a $600k+ budget, you can do better with schools by sticking with the top 4 districts I listed above.
Thanks a bunch! This helps a lot. We did look at some housing options in HP but that basically was similar to where we live now and it would be pointless for us to just "swap" locations if that makes sense. Wow didn't realize that property tax in TX was 2%. Does TX have a car property tax? Where I live we have to pay property tax at a rate of 4% of what the county deems as the value on an annual basis. This is statewide in VA unfortunately. No income tax is great for sure, but my wife nor I will be commuting to work on a daily basis. We're pretty much going to stay put. I know that sounds crazy but my job allows me to work 100% from home with the exception of occasional travel overseas but DFW has direct flights to where I normally travel to so that's great as well. My wife wants to send the kids to private school but I want my kids to attend public so they can have friends that are actually in the same neighborhood and be able to have same friends going into Middle and High school together. College, they're on their own =)
I will look more closely into Coppell and Carroll as well.
Forgot to mention that we're an Asian family in the late 30s so hoping that the area we move to will be somewhat diverse. Hoping some of the areas mentioned will have some diversity.
You won't have an issue as far as diversity. All the areas you are contemplating are pretty diverse and have a good number of asian families as well as even some grocery stores if you want some ethnic ingredients.
The average property tax is actually closer to 2.5 and also based on the tax assessed value. No car tax.
Property taxes are set by each county, town/city, and school district. They range from 2%-3% and vary WIDELY so be sure you know what you're getting into as each entity has different calculations for homestead exemptions (can lower the amount of your home's value that you're taxed on, ie Dallas County offers a 20% exemption on your primary home meaning that portion of taxes on a $500k home is taxed as if it's a $400k home) and tax rates. Regardless, still better than 4% where you currently live!!
Cars are not subject to property taxes. You pay about $50-60 per car per year in registration fees and the $40 annual inspection. That's it.
Since you are Asian and would like to live in a diverse area with great schools, I'd almost narrow the list completely to Plano ISD (mega-school district) and Coppell ISD (small district, 1 high school). Both are great areas in your price range, convenient enough to DFW (Coppell is much closer but Plano isn't bad for the occasional business trip), and are great family areas. Both are very established suburbs and almost entirely "built out" (like 98% vs 50% for Frisco) which helps stabilize property values and helps appreciation (ie, when you sell, you won't be competing with brand new houses up the road like in Frisco, Allen, McKinney, etc).
Coppell has had one of the stronger real estate markets through the past few years; both sales price and units to LY are up nearly every quarter. Plano's market is ok; VERY sluggish over $1M but the $300-600k range looks to be stable.
The best school district is Highland Park ISD. It draws from two independent towns (Highland Park & University Park) which are located about 5 miles north of downtown Dallas. It's like a suburb within the city with a small school district (4 elementary schools, 1 middle, 1 high). Extremely safe, very high income area where something like 98% of adults have college degrees and a high % have graduate degrees), very pretty. HP High School has the highest SAT score of any public school in North Texas and is regularly named in the top 15-30 public high schools in the US. The area is, however, VERY expensive. A "starter home", 3-4 bedroom/2-3 bathroom/ 2,500sf home on a 50x100 lot is going to run $700-900k....just to give you an idea. It's probably not less expensive than the DC area, but it's an East Coast quality school district in the area with THE lowest property tax rates in North Texas (2% for HP and a bit over 2% for UP- a $1M home in HP carried the exact same tax bill as a $700k home in Coppell, another good district with astronomical property taxes) and still other benefits of TX like no state income tax, lower gas & grocery prices, etc. Mainly zip codes 75225 & 75205 if you want to browse housing. A rental in the district will run about $2500/mo for a 3/2 duplex and $3,000+ for a home.
The next tier public schools are Carroll ISD (suburb NW of Dallas called Southlake), Plano ISD, and Coppell ISD (NW suburb but closer in than Southlake). Carroll and Coppell are both smaller districts where all kids ultimately feed into one high school. Plano is a mega district with three senior high schools (grades 11-12 only) and graduating classes of 1,100-1,500 students from each high school (vs 400 kids per class at HPHS and 600-700 at Coppell & Carroll). All are good districts with involved parents & high performing kids, they are just structured differently. Housing has a "sweet spot" of $300-600k in Plano, $500-800k in Southlake, and $400-600k in Coppell. Check property taxes as they range widely. A $500k home could have $10,000 of annual taxes in one district and $15,000 in another, depending on allowed exemptions and tax rates.
Frisco, McKinney, Allen, Colleyville-Grapevine, etc all have "good"'districts. Not great. They are rather average for the area although they are popular with relo's because they are better quality than where the relo's are moving from (Cali, big city districts like Chicago, NYC, etc). If you have a $600k+ budget, you can do better with schools by sticking with the top 4 districts I listed above.
Not sure what your source of info is, but Allen schools, for 2010, were rated "Exemplary." Plano was rated as "Recognized," a step below. Info pulled from Texas Education Agency's website. I would say both Allen and Plano are pretty good districts. But, in terms of performance, Allen's at the top.
As for your real estate/tax figures, I can't dispute them since they are pretty much what I would have stated without researching...
To the original poster...
2010 Exemplary School Districts:
Collin County (north of DFW) -
Allen, Celina, Frisco, Lovejoy, Melissa, Prosper
Dallas County (Dallas area) -
Coppell, Highland Park
Denton County (north of DFW) -
Argyle
Ellis County (south of DFW) -
Palmer
Johnson County (south of DFW) -
Keene
Kaufman County (east of DFW) -
Forney, Mabank, Scurry-Rosser
Parker County (west of DFW) -
Brock
Tarrant County (Fort Worth area) -
Carroll
Some are urban, big city while others are small town. So, depending on what specifics you're looking for, there's something for everyone somewhere. Best of luck!
A few pointers... go under your budget. The 2.5 avg property taxes really add up. There are pleanty of areas with good schools where you can get a very nice home for 400k.
Also remember things like Home owners insurance are higher here, and the utility bills will be much higher. +3000sqft house will avg you 250-300/month then gas will be around 150/month. (we have had over 60 days of 100 degree weather this year....) A/C will run usually from May-Oct. But then Jan and Feb will be pretty cold (and thses houses are not insulated that well)
I am curious as to where in NOVA you live if you say it's just like Highland Park... that would either be McLean or Great Falls.
For schools.. Fairfax county schools (and VA schools really) are much better thasn TX schools. The districts that will compare are... Highland Park (but for 600k you can't buy there) Coppell (some of the highest taxes in the area) and Southlake.
Plano schools are very good, Flower mound schools are very good as well.
Frisco and Allen and McKinney have good schools as well (but you are getting pretty far out then)
Not having a State income Tax is nice but it really is a wash with the other taxes and expenses etc...
Not sure what your source of info is, but Allen schools, for 2010, were rated "Exemplary." Plano was rated as "Recognized," a step below. Info pulled from Texas Education Agency's website. I would say both Allen and Plano are pretty good districts. But, in terms of performance, Allen's at the top.
!
I don't put much stock in the Texas Education Ratings since they are derived from the TAKS test and drop out rates.
I look at college placement/readiness because a family who stares their main criteria is the best schools is wanting a college prep environment (where passing the TAKS reading and math tests is a "given"'and not something the teachers have to spend the whole year "preparing" their students to take).
Based on the better indicators of college placement (SAT scores, Advanced Placement exam pass rates, National Merit Finalists, and qualify of college admissions- ie, are top students getting into Harvard, Stanford, UT Plan II or are they going to Baylor, UNT, Texas Tech, etc), Frisco and Allen are average, at best.
Regarding SAT scores, Highland Park HS has the highest average score in the DFW area at 1203 (math + verbal). Plano West and Senior are right behind with 1183 and 1180. Coppell is 4th with 1149 and Caroll ranks 5th with 1134.
Where are "exemplary" Allen and Frisco? Allen is 14th with 1089. The best Frisco HS has the 20th highest score (1080) and the lowest ranked Frisco SAT is Liberty HS (1050 for 30th rank). Anyone who has been engaged with college admissions recently know the college prospects for an "average" HP or Plano kid look a lot brighter/ more competitive than the "average" Frisco or Allen kid....120-150 points on the SAT is a BIG difference- the difference between going to a Top 20 school or being shut out of the top 100.
As for AP pass rates, between 65-75% of AP students in HP, Plano, Coppell, and Carroll are passing their exams and becoming eligible for college credit. Only 30-40% of Frisco & Allen's kids are passing. That speaks volumes to the quality of students and teachers.
With National Merit, we look at % of class with the honor because graduating class sizes vary so wildly in the DFW area. Here are the 2010 Semi-Finalists for public schools:
1. Flower Mound HS (Lewisville) - 4.4% of senior class
2. Highland Park - 3.3%
3. Plano Senior - 3%
4. FM Marcus (Lewisville) - 2.6%
5. Plano West - 2.5%
6. Coppell - 2.1%
Allen and Frisco HS were in the 1% range, as was Carroll HS. None of the other 3 Frisco HS's made the list (which starts with .5% of class being NMSF).
College admissions-> Highland Park and Plano ISD's regularly get kids into every single Ivy League school, plus Stanford, and usually have 10-20 getting I to top schools like Vandy, Duke, Wake Forrest, Washington & Lee, etc. (and I mean 10 into Duke, 20 into Vandy/Wake, not 10-20 across all those schools).
Coppell's and Southlake Carroll's top grads get into the elite schools well. Recent top grads have gone to Yale, Princeton, Rice, Northwestern, etc.
Allen's top graduates are going to Baylor, UTD, UNT, A&M, etc. It's just a different caliber altogether. Frisco ISD usually gets a small handful into Ivy and the rest of the top grads are staying in state and going to UT, A&M, Tech, SW Texas, Baylor, UTD.
So, to summarize, TEA Exemplary means nothing if it isn't backed up by great college prep. Last time I checked, the TAKS isn't something college admissions officers review, so I need a great school to have students and teachers who strive towards higher goals than passing the TAKS....
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