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Hello all, I've been lurking on this site for some time but finally registered. Mostly looked in DC area stuff but my wife and I decided to move to the DFW area but we don't know much about that area. I know it may sound crazy but for some strange reason I've always had an interest in DFW, mainly because the cost of living seemed so much cheaper than the DC area.
Having said that, our plan is to go to a city and rent for like 6 months to get a good feel and ultimately buy a home. Some of the important factors for us is school district and a neighborhood where it would be considered more of a family environment where kids can play without having to worry about letting them out unsupervised.
Some areas we browsed on the web are Frisco, Plano, Richardson, Garland, Ft. Worth and possibly Arlington. Again, school district is our #1 priority (I realize that this usually means more expensive homes). While we don't really have a budget set on a home but it seems like $600K buys you a lot of house in the DFW area compared to the DC area.
Any help and input is greatly appreciated....oh work is not an issue in terms of commute and distance.
Quote:
Originally Posted by TurtleCreek80
I don't put much stock in the Texas Education Ratings since they are derived from the TAKS test and drop out rates.
I look at college placement/readiness because a family who stares their main criteria is the best schools is wanting a college prep environment (where passing the TAKS reading and math tests is a "given"'and not something the teachers have to spend the whole year "preparing" their students to take).
Based on the better indicators of college placement (SAT scores, Advanced Placement exam pass rates, National Merit Finalists, and qualify of college admissions- ie, are top students getting into Harvard, Stanford, UT Plan II or are they going to Baylor, UNT, Texas Tech, etc), Frisco and Allen are average, at best.
Regarding SAT scores, Highland Park HS has the highest average score in the DFW area at 1203 (math + verbal). Plano West and Senior are right behind with 1183 and 1180. Coppell is 4th with 1149 and Caroll ranks 5th with 1134.
Where are "exemplary" Allen and Frisco? Allen is 14th with 1089. The best Frisco HS has the 20th highest score (1080) and the lowest ranked Frisco SAT is Liberty HS (1050 for 30th rank). Anyone who has been engaged with college admissions recently know the college prospects for an "average" HP or Plano kid look a lot brighter/ more competitive than the "average" Frisco or Allen kid....120-150 points on the SAT is a BIG difference- the difference between going to a Top 20 school or being shut out of the top 100.
As for AP pass rates, between 65-75% of AP students in HP, Plano, Coppell, and Carroll are passing their exams and becoming eligible for college credit. Only 30-40% of Frisco & Allen's kids are passing. That speaks volumes to the quality of students and teachers.
With National Merit, we look at % of class with the honor because graduating class sizes vary so wildly in the DFW area. Here are the 2010 Semi-Finalists for public schools:
1. Flower Mound HS (Lewisville) - 4.4% of senior class
2. Highland Park - 3.3%
3. Plano Senior - 3%
4. FM Marcus (Lewisville) - 2.6%
5. Plano West - 2.5%
6. Coppell - 2.1%
Allen and Frisco HS were in the 1% range, as was Carroll HS. None of the other 3 Frisco HS's made the list (which starts with .5% of class being NMSF).
College admissions-> Highland Park and Plano ISD's regularly get kids into every single Ivy League school, plus Stanford, and usually have 10-20 getting I to top schools like Vandy, Duke, Wake Forrest, Washington & Lee, etc. (and I mean 10 into Duke, 20 into Vandy/Wake, not 10-20 across all those schools).
Coppell's and Southlake Carroll's top grads get into the elite schools well. Recent top grads have gone to Yale, Princeton, Rice, Northwestern, etc.
Allen's top graduates are going to Baylor, UTD, UNT, A&M, etc. It's just a different caliber altogether. Frisco ISD usually gets a small handful into Ivy and the rest of the top grads are staying in state and going to UT, A&M, Tech, SW Texas, Baylor, UTD.
So, to summarize, TEA Exemplary means nothing if it isn't backed up by great college prep. Last time I checked, the TAKS isn't something college admissions officers review, so I need a great school to have students and teachers who strive towards higher goals than passing the TAKS....
As the original poster stated, "school district and a neighborhood where it would be considered more of a family environment where kids can play without having to worry about letting them out unsupervised," I was left with the impression they are looking for good schools with standardized testing results as the basis for their decision. I could be wrong. Assuming they either have no kids at all, or younger/middle-age children, I think it makes sense to worry about schools with higher ratings for standardized test results as opposed to college prep. Seeing that you're from the Park Cities (as I saw in another post of yours), do you think you'll see more kids playing without the parents worrying about superivision in the Park Cities area or in Allen, Frisco, etc? To me, Allen/Frisco would make more sense. I've driven through the PCs a number of times and have yet to see any kids playing, perhaps because they're busy studying for a college prep test years down the road. Either way, I think the original poster had a much younger age group in mind when mentioning schools, which is why I mentioned ratings from the TEA's website. Not to lessen the importance of the info you stated regarding colleges, it may be helpful on down the road should they (original poster and family) want to move again.
Beware of the examplary rating for schools. My wife's a consults for DISD. The examplary rating is equivalent to most of the kids scoring a C/C+ on the TAKS test. SAT scores (again not a direct correlation but the best metric to use) is a better measure of performance.
Seeing that you're from the Park Cities (as I saw in another post of yours), do you think you'll see more kids playing without the parents worrying about superivision in the Park Cities area or in Allen, Frisco, etc? To me, Allen/Frisco would make more sense. I've driven through the PCs a number of times and have yet to see any kids playing, perhaps because they're busy studying for a college prep test years down the road.
I don't think you've actually driven down the residential streets or by UP & HP's many parks (or maybe you drove through during school hours or while it's been 107 degrees for half the summer?) because it's one of the last city neighborhoods (along with Lakewood) where you can barely drive 2 blocks without seeing kids playing outside, "exploring" the creeks & parks, etc. There are about 2X as many kids in UP as HP so next time you're in the area on a Saturday or after school, drive the streets north of Lovers between 75 & Tollroad and count how many kids are outside playing. If you want to be amazed, drive through the week after Christmas and count the Christmas tree "forts" that have been assembled and the number of kids "manning" them.
Parents don't worry about superision because there's virally no crime. My friends with children who live there do the same thing our parents did- open the door on Saturday morning and tell the kids to go play and not come home until lunch or dinner.
Ironically, most of my coworkers live in Allen/McKinney/Frisco and just as in Dallas, most neighborhoods have NO kids in the front yards playing because their parents are irrationally concerned about kidnapping/safety.
Quote:
Originally Posted by YouKnowWho
Not to lessen the importance of the info you stated regarding colleges, it may be helpful on down the road should they (original poster and family) want to move again.
OP has stated numerous times he wants his kids to have lifelong K-12 friends who move up through school with them. If Plano is the better district for college prep (I'm assuming you concede since you made no attempt to explain Frisco's mediocre track record?), then why not just start there? Plano has tons of kids (what, 50,000 of them in PISD alone?), is vey safe, and was the original "family friendly" northern suburb. Why not just recommend the family start there, vs start in a mediocre school district and then need to move, do remedial coursework to catch up, etc when Frisco/Allen schools fail their kids??
You DO realize that kids develop their academic personas (curiosities, subject matter interests, study habits, competitiveness) very early on, right? Those same Frisco elementary school kids who are getting drilled on TAKS prep (but barely learning anything outside TAKS "basic" curriculum) are the SAME kids who will rank 20th to 30th in the metroplex when they take their SAT's in 5-10 years? Why wouldn't you have a desire to start your kids in the stronger district?
You can't simply wake up with a 9th grader and try to "catch up" for 8 years of being behind academically (behind compared to the hundreds of thousands of college applicants who went to stronger schools with better teachers and classmanres)
Southlake would be a good option, great schools but a bit away from the cityso you can get a great neighobrhood feel with bigger lots etc...
It's alot of transplants etc...
I would compare it to Landsdown area in NOVA.
Coppell would be another very nice option for you. Excellent schools but it has less hype than Southlake.
Kinda like the Brambleton area of Ashburn, but more insular since it like Southlake is a 1 HS town.
SMALL lots and alleyway...so lots of cars park on the street (something I dont like)
Pretty diverse student body, quite a few Indians and asains etc...
Flowermound, very good schools, and very pretty area more "breathing room" feels a bit counrty. I really like Highland Village by the lake, it's just seems pretty peaceful there!
kinda like Gainsville and haymarket, it has really grown with new development in the last few years.
Plano, great schools closer in for getting into downtown Dallas, pretty congested at times etc... alot like McLean. (pretty big asian population)
hope that helps a bit with the comparasions.
Why would you leave Great Falls? It is such a wonderful gem nestled in the hustle and bustle of DC!!
I would move back in a heartbeat...I miss the woods and miss the fall etc...
Southlake would be a good option, great schools but a bit away from the cityso you can get a great neighobrhood feel with bigger lots etc...
It's alot of transplants etc...
I would compare it to Landsdown area in NOVA.
Coppell would be another very nice option for you. Excellent schools but it has less hype than Southlake.
Kinda like the Brambleton area of Ashburn, but more insular since it like Southlake is a 1 HS town.
SMALL lots and alleyway...so lots of cars park on the street (something I dont like)
Pretty diverse student body, quite a few Indians and asains etc...
Flowermound, very good schools, and very pretty area more "breathing room" feels a bit counrty. I really like Highland Village by the lake, it's just seems pretty peaceful there!
kinda like Gainsville and haymarket, it has really grown with new development in the last few years.
Plano, great schools closer in for getting into downtown Dallas, pretty congested at times etc... alot like McLean. (pretty big asian population)
hope that helps a bit with the comparasions.
Why would you leave Great Falls? It is such a wonderful gem nestled in the hustle and bustle of DC!!
I would move back in a heartbeat...I miss the woods and miss the fall etc...
Thanks for the info. We lived in Ashburn once. At first we couldn't believe we moved there to get away from things...boy did we get away from things. After a while, we fell in love with the area but decided it was too far from family so we moved "closer in".
GF is nice I suppose if you like an empty town because no one ever seems to come out. I live in a subdivision with about 10 homes and I have yet to see a single kid out in over a year. Something about GF people, I kinda feel like most are very reserved. In all fairness though, my next door neighbor is kinda far away since most of our house sit on 2 acres. We only have 1 grocery store in the entire GF and restaurants pretty much all suck, unless you like French food. GF park gets old after 2 visits, and Riverbend Park is the same. We find ourselves out and about every weekend, mostly in Ashburn area (we can't believe this actually).
Reason for wanting to possibly leave is to try something new. We pretty much grew up in NOVA wanted to venture out and see if there is "something better" if that makes sense.
Based on what you say, look west. Personally, I recommend Argyle Texas. Check this out....you could move to Southlake or Westlake (Westlake Academy) or Arygle (home of Liberty Christian School). When you look at the student roster, you see addresses from the Argyle - Flower Mound area, but also LOTS and LOTS from Southlake, Colleyville and Westlake. This is the place to send your kids. It cannot be beat. Check it out if that is important to you! Message me for more info if you like!
I have many friends on the East Coast and used to live in CT so you are correct when you say you get a lot more for your money here in the DFW area. The culture shock tends to be in the yard sizes for my East Coast friends...and our lack of changing seasons (and I still miss all the fall colors). If yard is going to be a factor it will limit where you are able to look as this area is famous for postage stamp lots. HP is not a good option because of your price point. I know there have been several voices about the differences in schools but I have lived in Allen and McKinney and have loved both of the schools. I also know that Frisco and West Plano have great schools as well with Frisco having some very innovative programs they offer. I like the large schools because they tend to give more options to the students in regards to sports, academics, AP courses and student body programs. If you end up narrowing it down to a couple of cities I would be happy to send you some more detailed information on those cities. Another area that has not been mentioned here but is becoming the HP of Collin County would be Fairview (which is Lovejoy ISD) and Prosper. Both of these areas will offer larger yards and fabulous schools. I think McKinney also has a lot to offer as well and all of these areas offer diversity. I wish you the best of luck in your move. Let me know if you have other questions.
Tanya Endicott
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go west young man.......
