Strictly from an elementary school quality standpoint, is Southlake worth the premium over Flower Mound? (Garland: section 8, apartments)

[Cali Fragilistic]

With elementary school rankings about the same (high school rankings are not too important for us at this point), is Southlake worth the price premium over Flower Mound?

What's different between the two? I know Southlake is more affluent etc. but the bling factor alone does not mean much to us. We wouldn't have a problem living next to neighbors who drive Audi as opposed to Aston Martin.

So, noblesse oblige aside, is there anything better to life in Southlake vs. Flower Mound?

TIA!

[loves2read]

from what I have seen NO depending on the specific neighborhoods--

but you need to understand that in Southlake the city council is much more restrictive regarding issues that can effect property values--
for example--unlike most neighboring towns--
when builder submits plans/request for building permit--ALL design items have to be present--so that the finished design, sq ft, landscaping platte--they all have to be done--
which is not the case for neighboring towns--
and once those plans are approved the builder is pretty much locked in to those specifics--
unlike other cities where there is more waffle room as the process goes along
that means that Southlake approves/disapproves based on what the finished design will be and the builder is held to those standards--
known quantities--
m ore expensive for builder to do that as well becuase ALL planning options have to be done BEFORE the yea-nea is given
so keeps some builders from building there if they do not have the initial capital to commit

Also--NO apts in Southlake and never will be--people are too involved in monitoring the types of buildings going in--builders had difficult time getting some zero lot homes approved because some people thought they would be negative for property values in area--

Flower Mound does not have those stringent standards from what I know--
there ARE apt complexes in Flower Mound==no matter how great they might start out--as time goes by most apt complexes deteriorate in appearance and the types of renters--most management companies won't spend the time/money it takes to keep them "looking like new"
and apts are usually a downer for schools in general for variety of reasons

once you know that about the two communities--you can decide if you are risking that much by buying in Flower Mound vs Southlake--
there are some great neighborhoods in Flower Mound with stable property values and good schools--
but most people would say that Southlake offers more consistent property values/infrastructure...

the "bling" effect is geared to the neighborhood as well--there are many people in Southlake that there by the skin of their teeth because they value the security that Southlake has provided regarding property values and top-quality schools--they are willing to sacrifice to have those safeguards--when they might have been able to buy less-expensive home in good neighborhoods of Flower Mound or Keller or other areas and have more disposable income...
and Southlake covers a wide area of price ranges--while the lower end of the spectrum is the 400K home which is high compared to other area towns--you are not that likely to park next to Aston Martin unless it is parking lot of Southlake Town Center unless you yourself can afford the garage/house that goes with an Aston Martin

[mSooner]

Flower Mound does not have those stringent standards from what I know--
there ARE apt complexes in Flower Mound==no matter how great they might start out--as time goes by most apt complexes deteriorate in appearance and the types of renters--most management companies won't spend the time/money it takes to keep them "looking like new"
and apts are usually a downer for schools in general for variety of reasons

There are TWO complexes in Flower Mound, both barely within the city limits. A decent portion of the residents are people looking to buy in Flower Mound. Both complexes aren't brand new and have been redone/nicely maintained over the years.

It's really a moot point.

I've lived in Flower Mound and spent a decent amount of time in Southlake. Southlake is definitely "ritzier," but I really wouldn't worry about Flower Mound going downhill anytime soon. Especially if you buy on the west end. People often forget about Tour 18, Chimney Rock, and all of the lakefront neighborhoods off Wichita Trail--they rival anything in Southlake.

Flower Mound is starting to catch up to Southlake retail and recreation wise, as well.

This was built in the last few years:

Aquatics (http://www.flower-mound.com/cac/aquatics.php - broken link)

Have you had a chance to actually see the communities in person yet? I would make your decision based on that. They towns do have a different feel, though I would argue one isn't really better than the other.

[loves2read]

the fact is that there could be other apt complexes built that would affect Lewisville schools--there is lot of open land in Flower Mound and Lewsville
but I can pretty much guarantee there will never be an apt complex in Southlake ISD

[mSooner]

Right now there are three tiny specks of Flower Mound zoned to multi-family housing (see map--they simply encompass the two existing communities I mentioned and a mobile home park that has been there forever way out in the boonies), and I can guarantee that that there wont be any zoning changes in this regard without a HUGE fight.

Town of Flowermound Maps

Believe me, it is REALLY not an issue in this community. Flower Mound is on its way up right now, not down.

As for Lewisville...sure. But Lewisville and Flower Mound are two very different worlds and don't really affect each other much. Even school-wise.

[biafra4life]

Flower Mound is a great city, but those "tiny specks" as you call them are all relative. You wouldn't think it was a tiny speck if your home was next door to that MF zone...I think it's amazing that Southlake has been able to keep out MF all this time. Sunnyvale is another city that tried to keep out apartments, and is in the process of losing that battle in court. Frisco recently had to approve section 8 housing after the threat of being sued in court...and I could be wrong, but I thought Flower Mound also got sued to allow section 8 housing in?
I can only imagine its a matter of time before the gun sights get turned on Southlake. But in the interim, other than Highland Park it's probably the best bet for quality.

The last thing; Flower Mound schools are part of Lewisville ISD...right now FM schools are markedly superiour to Lewisville schools, but one thing I have noticed is ISDs can jerk around city schools that are within its borders...Rowlett schools are part of Garland ISD, and there was a mild brouhaha when the GISD started bussing in kids from South Garland (the less desirable schools) over to Rowlett schools. I'm not aware of any such thing going on in Lewisville, but it is a possibility.

[mSooner]

You wouldn't think it was a tiny speck if your home was next door to that MF zone...

Except for the mobile home park (which is truly out of sight in the middle of nowhere), I've personally seen both complexes and they aren't anything anyone would object to. They are luxury by most standards. Seriously--look at the map. Look REALLY hard for the tiny orange spots. Those are the multi-family housing zoning areas.

but I thought Flower Mound also got sued to allow section 8 housing in?

I believe the lawsuit is still pending. The fact that they are fighting it tooth and nail should tell you something (though I don't know if I am necessarily "proud" of that). Besides...you don't think Southlake wouldn't be next? If Flower Mound loses, there is no reason to believe Southlake (or any other highly sought after area except Highland Park) would be able to fight it.

[loves2read]

Southlake won't get multifamily housing--I don't think any person would sell land to a developer for that--

what happened in Sunnyvale from what I understand is that the developer bought the land and now wants to get federal funding to build multifamily housing with it vs private funding--
the city does not want to change the zoning which the developer knew when he BOUGHT the property--
so I think he should be told--you bought it knowing you could not build what you want--suffer...

In theory it sounds very noble to support multi-family/section 8 housing--in reality renting to people who qualify for that is a quick way to see neighborhood standards start to decline--and the experience I have had with the apts in Bedford that were allowed to rent to section 8 is pretty negative because more and more of the units become section 8 renters vs not--and people who can afford NOT to live in section 8 complex do so--
so the owners are chasing a pool of renters that often come with criminal element and other negatives
ask a policeman if there is difference between section 8 multifamily vs those without--
ask a principal of a schools where students from those apts are zoned to compare before and after

I don't understand why this plea works in housing when no one would subsidize someone's "right" to buy a Lexus vs a used clunker--there it is all about the math--
if you can't afford the payments, you can't drive out the car

[mSooner]

Southlake won't get multifamily housing--I don't think any person would sell land to a developer for that--

Multifamily housing forced by lawsuit and multifamily housing naturally occurring are two different beasts.

The same "social taboos" that would stop someone from selling to a developer in Southlake exist in Flower Mound...why do you think no complexes have been built in the last 10 years? Both of the complexes that exist now are barely in Flower Mound--if more were going to be built, it would have happened in the height of the building boom.

[TurtleCreek80]

Originally Posted by mSooner

I believe the lawsuit is still pending. The fact that they are fighting it tooth and nail should tell you something (though I don't know if I am necessarily "proud" of that). Besides...you don't think Southlake wouldn't be next? If Flower Mound loses, there is no reason to believe Southlake (or any other highly sought after area except Highland Park) would be able to fight it.

HPISD actually has quite a bit of MF housing. There are apartments within a few blocks of the high school that are $500-600/mo. The valedictorian last year was a Vietnamese immigrant whose family lived in a HP or UP apartment.

"Renters" or "apartment kids" are hardly the "death" of a well run and well managed district that strives for excellence.