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It's clear in reading through these posts that many people don't know what SSDI is, or how the process of being approved for a claim works.
To begin with, Social Security Disability Insurance is not an entitlement program! As the name clearly suggests, it is an insurance pool. As with any insurance policy, some claimants will receive more than they pay in, while others will pay in more than they receive in proceeds. For understandable reasons, people who are disabled tend to have shorter life-spans than do healthier people. I've recently filed a claim for SSDI. Using myself as an example: if my claim is approved, I'll receive about $25,000 a year in SSDI payments. In order for the sum of those payments to equal the amount I've paid into the system via my personal FICA tax and that paid by employers on my behalf, I would need to collect payments for nearly ten years. While I hope to live a long time yet, the reality is that my age (57) and my medical condition (a deformed heart) combine to make it unlikely that I will even receive the total amount I paid in. This is true for many recipients.
Being approved for SSDI is a notoriously difficult proposition. Determination of an SSDI claim is made in three potential stages. The first assessment of the claim is made by someone at your state's labor department. The states have all contracted with The SSA to serve this function. The first stage typically takes 6-8 months. The assessor will first determine that you have enough work credits to qualify and that you have not engaged in Significant Gainful Activity (SGA) for any of the period covered by your claim. Assuming you meet these qualifications, the next step involves looking at your complete medical record and the functions of your previous job. The assessor will then try to determine if your medical limitations, combined with your age and level of education and/or work experience makes it likely that you could adapt to other employment. Only 25% of claims are approved at the first stage of the process.
The second stage is little more than a second opinion. Someone else at your state's labor department will look at the same information viewed by the first assessor. This generally takes another 1-2 months. Very few claims are approved at this stage. After the first two stages have been completed, only about 1 in 3 claims will have been approved. The other two-thirds of applicants need to move on to the third and final stage of the process.
The last stage is a hearing in front of a federal judge. In most cases, it takes another 12-18 months to be scheduled for such a hearing. A lot more people are approved at the hearing stage--about 50% percent of those who make it that far. Of course, by this time, they will have been unable to work and have been without any significant employment income for two years or more.
To sum up the approval numbers: about 1 in 4 will be approved at the first stage, about 1 in 3 will be approved at either the first or second stage, and about 2 in 3 will be approved through the final stage. This still leaves 1 in 3 who are denied throughout the entire process.
Once approved, there is a five month penalty period, meaning that the first five months of your disability will go without any payment. You will be eligible for Medicare 24 months after your SSDI payments begin (29 months after your date of disability). You will be placed on a re-assessment audit schedule of either 3 or 7 years, depending upon your age and the likely permanence of your medical condition.
Some other notes:
SSI--Supplemental Security Income is an entirely different program. It is designed for individuals over the age of 65, those of any age who are blind, and those of any age who meet disability requirements. It is a program for people in one of the above groups who do not have enough work credits to qualify for any kind of Social Security payments. While it is technically an entitlement program, it is the only source of income for individuals who are in dire need. Without it, many of these people would be homeless. SSI qualifications are very restrictive. The maximum monthly payment is $733. It also requires that recipients be in possession of no more than $2,000 in total resources. Resources include everything you own: cash, bank accounts, retirement accounts, real estate, automobiles, and all personal property.
Existing while waiting for approval--I'm luckier than most SSDI claimants in that I had a 401k I could liquidate. Even with that, I'll only have enough to last for about 18 months. Again, most people don't even have that option. Many lose their residence, their transportation, and their belongings while waiting to be approved.
Monthly SSDI payments--The average payment for SSDI is $1,165. The maximum payment is $2,663. In my case, I would receive about $2,050 per month. I would have less than $25,000 a year to replace an income of $65,000+@15,000 in benefits (including a good healthcare plan which cost me nothing in premiums). I'll need to live on less than one-third of what I was making at a job I enjoyed. The overwhelming majority of SSDI recipients receive far less than they were making while capable of employment, and would much rather be gainfully employed.
Medical coverage--SSDI recipients receive Medicare after 29 months. Until then, they are on their own in obtaining medical care. I'll pay over $15,000 this year in total medical expenses. Since I have 401k proceeds this year, I won't even be able to claim much of that on my tax return. Many people have to seek Medicaid or various state programs until Medicare becomes available to them.
Fraud--Of course there is some fraud in SSDI. There is some fraud in most governmental processes (and in most private ones).There is fraud in some US military contracts, fraud in some political campaign funds (from all political parties), fraud committed by some hedge-fund managers, fraud committed by some billionaires when they file their taxes, and fraud committed by some welfare recipients. It's okay to be outraged by fraudulent use of taxpayer monies. It's not okay to single-out recipients of relatively small funds paid to poor and working class people, while ignoring individual instances of massive fraud by wealthy individuals, corporations, politicians, and governmental entities.
Attorneys--Although the initial filing can be done without an attorney, it's not a bad idea to engage an attorney from the beginning. Even if you do file on your own, an attorney is vital should you need to take your claim to the hearing stage. Attorneys receive a fee equal to 25% of your back pay, but in no instance more than $6,000.
Addressing funding shortfalls--As many others have pointed out, the easiest way to deal with the future of Social Security is to eliminate the earnings cap on FICA tax. This, of course, doesn't set very well with high income earners, or with the politicians they own. However, it is the only reasonable long-range solution to maintaining the solvency of Social Security.
The other way to deal with the SSI short fall is to increase both the employer and employee contribution by 1.3% each, if they do this they won't have another problem for another seven years.
The other way to deal with the SSI short fall is to increase both the employer and employee contribution by 1.3% each, if they do this they won't have another problem for another seven years.
The SS Trustee report just came out. FICA has not been raised in 25 years.
They suggest immediately raising it from 12.4% to 15% permanently.
Previous to 1990 it was incrementally raised every 2-3 years since its inception.
Um, who has controlled the dept. of justice the last 6+ years? .
Who is in charge of the House Oversight Committee? Isn't that where these kinds of investigations are usually initiated? Maybe you should ask Jason Chaffetz when these things will be investigated.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mathguy
It's really really funny that you guys think there is any real difference between the two parties.
I think the only real difference is that Republicans are Machiavellian idiots and Democrats are just idiots.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mathguy
Creflo Dollar, the minister that wanted the 65million jet isn't exactly a bastion of republican voters either lol yet somehow it's those darn republicans that won't investigate him lol.....
I am appalled that Ron Wyden and Orrin Hatch haven't seen fit to investigate him, I don't hold any politicians harmless regardless of party.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mathguy
Neither party is going to anger AARP and their many elderly voters but it's important to try to make it sound like the OTHER party is out to get their social security. That's one of the most tired old political scare tactics around.
Which democrat is proudly proclaiming that they will either privatize, reform, or raise retirement age for SS? hmm <crickets> Seems like lots of R's are ready willing and able to give granny the axe Republicans' Big Gamble on Social Security - NationalJournal.com
I would really like to see more done with fraudulent claims. I have seen SO many instances of people who work under the table making more money than many other workers. I lived in an interesting area where it seemed to be over-the-line and it doesn't seem that what I saw was unusual: Facilitating Fraud: How SSDI Gives Benefits to the Able Bodied | Cato Institute
Before they borrow from SS, they need to take a good and hard look at other options.
This is no joke. Two friends of mine who work in the mental health system (one a psychiatrist and another a social worker) here in California tell me they see a lot of cases of SSDI abuse. And believe me, neither one of them are Republicans.
This is no joke. Two friends of mine who work in the mental health system (one a psychiatrist and another a social worker) here in California tell me they see a lot of cases of SSDI abuse. And believe me, neither one of them are Republicans.
I don't buy it. In the first place how would a psychiatrist have any information about people which of the people he examines are awarded benefits? He may examine some that are referred to him, if so, it would be his job to make a determination as to their disability- that is how they weed out claimants. I'm not sure how this Social Worker has all this knowledge either, does he evaluate everyone he sees and make a disability decision, if so based on what? I just don't buy that crap. I'm not saying those people didn't tell you that..but I just think they were talking to blow up their self importance. I've seen young vets who walk and talk just fine but are gravely disabled with PTSD, I've seen people with terminal cancer who function very well, hell some of them don't even look sick until a few weeks before they die.
I get tired of this junk about how people can "tell" if someone is disabled and when you drill down into that it turns out that they made their determination because the person "didn't look or act disabled"
It's clear in reading through these posts that many people don't know what SSDI is, or how the process of being approved for a claim works.
To begin with, Social Security Disability Insurance is not an entitlement program! As the name clearly suggests, it is an insurance pool. As with any insurance policy, some claimants will receive more than they pay in, while others will pay in more than they receive in proceeds. For understandable reasons, people who are disabled tend to have shorter life-spans than do healthier people. I've recently filed a claim for SSDI. Using myself as an example: if my claim is approved, I'll receive about $25,000 a year in SSDI payments. In order for the sum of those payments to equal the amount I've paid into the system via my personal FICA tax and that paid by employers on my behalf, I would need to collect payments for nearly ten years. While I hope to live a long time yet, the reality is that my age (57) and my medical condition (a deformed heart) combine to make it unlikely that I will even receive the total amount I paid in. This is true for many recipients.
Being approved for SSDI is a notoriously difficult proposition. Determination of an SSDI claim is made in three potential stages. The first assessment of the claim is made by someone at your state's labor department. The states have all contracted with The SSA to serve this function. The first stage typically takes 6-8 months. The assessor will first determine that you have enough work credits to qualify and that you have not engaged in Significant Gainful Activity (SGA) for any of the period covered by your claim. Assuming you meet these qualifications, the next step involves looking at your complete medical record and the functions of your previous job. The assessor will then try to determine if your medical limitations, combined with your age and level of education and/or work experience makes it likely that you could adapt to other employment. Only 25% of claims are approved at the first stage of the process.
The second stage is little more than a second opinion. Someone else at your state's labor department will look at the same information viewed by the first assessor. This generally takes another 1-2 months. Very few claims are approved at this stage. After the first two stages have been completed, only about 1 in 3 claims will have been approved. The other two-thirds of applicants need to move on to the third and final stage of the process.
The last stage is a hearing in front of a federal judge. In most cases, it takes another 12-18 months to be scheduled for such a hearing. A lot more people are approved at the hearing stage--about 50% percent of those who make it that far. Of course, by this time, they will have been unable to work and have been without any significant employment income for two years or more.
To sum up the approval numbers: about 1 in 4 will be approved at the first stage, about 1 in 3 will be approved at either the first or second stage, and about 2 in 3 will be approved through the final stage. This still leaves 1 in 3 who are denied throughout the entire process.
Once approved, there is a five month penalty period, meaning that the first five months of your disability will go without any payment. You will be eligible for Medicare 24 months after your SSDI payments begin (29 months after your date of disability). You will be placed on a re-assessment audit schedule of either 3 or 7 years, depending upon your age and the likely permanence of your medical condition.
Some other notes:
SSI--Supplemental Security Income is an entirely different program. It is designed for individuals over the age of 65, those of any age who are blind, and those of any age who meet disability requirements. It is a program for people in one of the above groups who do not have enough work credits to qualify for any kind of Social Security payments. While it is technically an entitlement program, it is the only source of income for individuals who are in dire need. Without it, many of these people would be homeless. SSI qualifications are very restrictive. The maximum monthly payment is $733. It also requires that recipients be in possession of no more than $2,000 in total resources. Resources include everything you own: cash, bank accounts, retirement accounts, real estate, automobiles, and all personal property.
Existing while waiting for approval--I'm luckier than most SSDI claimants in that I had a 401k I could liquidate. Even with that, I'll only have enough to last for about 18 months. Again, most people don't even have that option. Many lose their residence, their transportation, and their belongings while waiting to be approved.
Monthly SSDI payments--The average payment for SSDI is $1,165. The maximum payment is $2,663. In my case, I would receive about $2,050 per month. I would have less than $25,000 a year to replace an income of $65,000+@15,000 in benefits (including a good healthcare plan which cost me nothing in premiums). I'll need to live on less than one-third of what I was making at a job I enjoyed. The overwhelming majority of SSDI recipients receive far less than they were making while capable of employment, and would much rather be gainfully employed.
Medical coverage--SSDI recipients receive Medicare after 29 months. Until then, they are on their own in obtaining medical care. I'll pay over $15,000 this year in total medical expenses. Since I have 401k proceeds this year, I won't even be able to claim much of that on my tax return. Many people have to seek Medicaid or various state programs until Medicare becomes available to them.
If you are lucky to get a good judge and he understands (in my case) that one usually works well beyond when one should have stopped the judge can backdate your disability start date. Your attorney can motion for the judge to do that if the judge doesn't do so on his own. It "could" turn out that your Medicare starts when you walk out the door depending on how long you had worked disabled.
Alcohol or drug abuse are not qualifying illnesses for SSDI. But sure, since you mention it -let's drug test everybody! Given the profound brilliance of our ideas I say we start with you
I have no issue with that I don't do drugs or drink more than a glass of wine a few times a month. But I think it's disgusting to drug test disabled people and not drug test the mentally disabled people who we vote into congress
I have no issue with that I don't do drugs or drink more than a glass of wine a few times a month. But I think it's disgusting to drug test disabled people and not drug test the mentally disabled people who we vote into congress
I personally believe that there are comparatively few instances where the average person should be drug tested to begin with. Some examples in which I find the practice OK:
Arriving at the ER unconscious
During the examination of the deceased, if specifically necessary or otherwise authorized
I say this as an employer, for what it's worth. I simply find little sense in the practice, and the practice itself is already applied in a woefully inconsistent (albeit deliberate) fashion.
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