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I was referring specifically to the cities, not the metro areas. Neither Hartford nor Trenton is particularly attractive or safe, and their best days seem to be behind them.
If you were to ask people what city offers a better bang for the buck between Hartford or Providence, they'd probably tell you the latter. Providence overall is just a nicer, cleaner city, with much better nightlife and a higher concentration of safe neighborhoods. There's plenty in Hartford that's literally falling apart, it's just not downtown — drive up Garden Street sometime and you will see what I mean. This is just one of multiple streets with dilapidated structures. Whether it's due to absentee landlords (as I commented on in another thread here), personal neglect or lacking the financial means to upkeep property, a number of structures have deteriorated badly. I'm not hating on the city, this is just an unfortunate reality. Tourist attractions downtown won't fix this.
I realize attendance is high at the Yard Goats. Certainly great news, but lest we forget, this is a relatively new venue thus it's in a honeymoon period. Over time, attendance will drop. It happens to even the most beloved of venues — even Camden Yards experienced this. The Xfinity Music Theater is nice, it gets the job done, and I enjoy going there myself on occasion, but let's not overhype this — it's not Red Rocks.
The biggest obstacle that Hartford faces is safety, or lack thereof. Now that Bronin is stepping down, that city will need someone to bang the gavel and not put up with criminal activity. As nice as he is as a person, he's not well-equipped to deal with this. It's unfortunate that our last president constantly preached "law and order!" and then contradicted it in every conceivable way, because that's what's truly needed right now.
You really can’t go by just the city itself. It’s not an island so what surrounds it is as important as the city itself.
I still never understand peoples view of Providence as a city. Don’t they have eyes? The city’s charm kind of escapes me honestly. It certainly has more than its fair share of problem neighborhoods and unkept properties. I’d even say it’s as much, if not more than Hartford IMHO. South Providence, Olneyville, Smith Hill and Hartford Park are pretty bad, rivaling any Hartford neighborhood.
As for crime, according to US News linked below Providence has a crime rate of 8.7 per 100,000 while Hartford is 8.2 per 100,000. That means Providence is higher.
As was mentioned, the Yardgoats have been around since 2016. After 7 years, the honeymoon is over. The fact the team is still attracting record crowds proves it’s not just something new to see.
And who is overhyping Xfinity? The fact is it’s a great facility with great music offerings that attracts ten of thousands of patrons every year from all over the northeast.
You are correct though that Hartford has suffered from bad leadership, but then again that’s true for any city, even Providence. We will see who replaces Luke Bronin and where the city goes from here. Right now though, with all the great new development going on, it sure seems on a good path right now. Jay
Some would probably never switch. Probably people with roots in Boston especially.
But I know people that were Whalers fans who reluctantly adopted the Bruins when they left. I imagine there's a lot of those. For many the Bruins are nothing more than a consolation prize.
Im sure there would be a lot. Unlike MLB where you are a devour Red Sox/Yankees fan.
My thing is, how far out from Hartford can you go to capture a large enough fan base to keep an NHL team going? Once you hit Enfield and Springfield area, you are lucky to get 10%. Go SW of Waterbury, its Rangers country with the transplants. Go East of the CT River its solid Bruins.
Inbetween there would be the best bet. But I feel its not large enough to support an NHL team with constant 16,000 people at 41 games.
<yawn> wake me up when you're done talking hockey and baseball
Head over to the riveting Desegregate thread. There’s enough on the edge of your seat content to keep you up for days. You’ll be scrolling for hours. Don’t miss another minute of the non stop action.
Quote:
Originally Posted by masssachoicetts
Im sure there would be a lot. Unlike MLB where you are a devour Red Sox/Yankees fan.
My thing is, how far out from Hartford can you go to capture a large enough fan base to keep an NHL team going? Once you hit Enfield and Springfield area, you are lucky to get 10%. Go SW of Waterbury, its Rangers country with the transplants. Go East of the CT River its solid Bruins.
Inbetween there would be the best bet. But I feel its not large enough to support an NHL team with constant 16,000 people at 41 games.
The Hartford region could easily support a team poached. The Rangers and Bruins would sell out most if not all nights if one moved into the brand new $1B Aetna Ice House arena.
The Islanders won’t. An expansion team can never happen there’s no point speculating.
You really can’t go by just the city itself. It’s not an island so what surrounds it is as important as the city itself.
I still never understand peoples view of Providence as a city. Don’t they have eyes? The city’s charm kind of escapes me honestly. It certainly has more than its fair share of problem neighborhoods and unkept properties. I’d even say it’s as much, if not more than Hartford IMHO. South Providence, Olneyville, Smith Hill and Hartford Park are pretty bad, rivaling any Hartford neighborhood.
The way you feel about Providence is the way I feel about Hartford — I just see minimal appeal. Maybe Providence is more comparable to New Haven than to Hartford, where the contrast between safe, well-kept neighborhoods and crime-ridden ones is stark. Other than downtown, I really don't see a single area of Hartford that is wholly and consistently safe and desirable. West Side is very nice, as long as you're north of Farmington Avenue — the area south of it has some streets that are really rough. Blue Hills has the highest rate of home ownership in the entire city, and most of it is suburban in character and relatively safe, but that area also has Route 187 to contend with, and this street can be VERY rough.
Quote:
Originally Posted by JayCT
As for crime, according to US News linked below Providence has a crime rate of 8.7 per 100,000 while Hartford is 8.2 per 100,000. That means Providence is higher.
Well, that may be, but that still doesn't change the fact that Hartford has a major uphill battle in terms of fighting crime. For all the talk about how wonderful downtown projects are, the question I'm asking is, what jobs can be created for the people who actually live in the city? Can they open a supermarket or two within city limits, considering that much of the city is a food desert? Can city hall create job opportunities for people with minimal skills? The private sector would do far more to help people than the government ever could. There is a point where even the most utopian of governments can't help you.
Quote:
Originally Posted by JayCT
As was mentioned, the Yardgoats have been around since 2016. After 7 years, the honeymoon is over. The fact the team is still attracting record crowds proves it’s not just something new to see.
And who is overhyping Xfinity? The fact is it’s a great facility with great music offerings that attracts ten of thousands of patrons every year from all over the northeast.
You are correct though that Hartford has suffered from bad leadership, but then again that’s true for any city, even Providence. We will see who replaces Luke Bronin and where the city goes from here. Right now though, with all the great new development going on, it sure seems on a good path right now. Jay
Well, I don't share your enthusiasm. More than shiny new buildings and development projects, I want to see a change in leadership. I want someone who is going to take a meat axe to all of the mealy-mouthed pacifism with respect to crime and say, "Folks? The adults are in charge now." The last person to come close to that was Mike Peters, and let me tell you, his leadership style is sorely needed right now.
Head over to the riveting Desegregate thread. There’s enough on the edge of your seat content to keep you up for days. You’ll be scrolling for hours. Don’t miss another minute of the non stop action.
The Hartford region could easily support a team poached. The Rangers and Bruins would sell out most if not all nights if one moved into the brand new $1B Aetna Ice House arena.
The Islanders won’t. An expansion team can never happen there’s no point speculating.
Yeah exactly. Too many native Bruins fans or adopted Bruins fans and Rangers fans and transplants (Unrelated, but, soooo many New Yorkers moving to CT... literally every house near my Family's home in Hartford Area has been resold to a New Yorker... just wanted to throw that out there. They are still coming in droves. Insanity... )
If Hartford is so great, why does its population continue to shrink? The city had 158,017 residents in 1970 but as of 2020 has just 121,054. Providence on the other hand had 179,213 in 1970 and grew to 190,934 in 2020. While Hartford continues to be home to a larger and better paid employment sector than Providence, that dynamic may be changing with the trend of more people working from home.
Poaching will not occur. I suspect we will see some franchise retraction, both NBA & NHL, as IMO they went past the quantity of teams the talent level can support, and the critical population max can support.
MLB & NFL can support more teams long term than NBA or NHL, due to massive tv revenue.
If Hartford is so great, why does its population continue to shrink? The city had 158,017 residents in 1970 but as of 2020 has just 121,054. Providence on the other hand had 179,213 in 1970 and grew to 190,934 in 2020. While Hartford continues to be home to a larger and better paid employment sector than Providence, that dynamic may be changing with the trend of more people working from home.
Poaching will not occur. I suspect we will see some franchise retraction, both NBA & NHL, as IMO they went past the quantity of teams the talent level can support, and the critical population max can support.
MLB & NFL can support more teams long term than NBA or NHL, due to massive tv revenue.
Contraction is not going to happen. In fact expansion is highly likely.
The NBA was once just about American players only. The NHL was US and Canada. That is no longer the case at all. Both sports have become far more international, expanding the talent pool dramatically. So contracting to prevent the watering down of talent is absolutely not needed or something either Commissioner has even hinted they are considering. Instead they have teased expansion.
Or let's look at revenue, in 2001 the NBA generated $2.5 billion. This year they topped $10 billion.
In 2005 the NHL's revenue was $2.27 billion. It's up to $6 billion.
Likely the increases are partially related to the internationalization of not only rosters but fanbases who then root for their countrymen, buy the merchandize, stream the games.
Neither league has any reason to consider retraction.
Contraction is not going to happen. In fact expansion is highly likely.
The NBA was once just about American players only. The NHL was US and Canada. That is no longer the case at all. Both sports have become far more international, expanding the talent pool dramatically. So contracting to prevent the watering down of talent is absolutely not needed or something either Commissioner has even hinted they are considering. Instead they have teased expansion.
Or let's look at revenue, in 2001 the NBA generated $2.5 billion. This year they topped $10 billion.
In 2005 the NHL's revenue was $2.27 billion. It's up to $6 billion.
Likely the increases are partially related to the internationalization of not only rosters but fanbases who then root for their countrymen, buy the merchandize, stream the games.
Neither league has any reason to consider retraction.
The Coyotes average 4,600 fans a game. That is not sustainable.
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