Columbus and Millennials (Cleveland, Marion, Franklin: apartment complex, buy, construction)

[jbcmh81]

Originally Posted by bjimmy24

Zing!

Yeah, this thread wasn't abou Cleveland until the Cleveland bashers came out. Also, some of the clevelanders here actually used to live in Columbus.

Sayin that a city is doomed to forever decline is pure ignorance. Take Cleveland: ghettos are emptying out, core is filling in with young educated people. True, maybe he overall numbers are still going down. But what would you rather have happen? The opposite? The people moving in to Cleveland are certainly the right kind of people for the future. Have you been to Cleveland at all, or are you just reciting party line? I find it hard to believe that anyone who goes to Cleveland downtown, Ohio city, tremont, Gordon square, the new flats, university circle, or little Italy could say that Cleveland is on the outs. Sure, there are some bad areas. Nobody is denying that. But if you actually knew anything about what you spout off about and if you saw Cleveland ten years ago compared to now, it'd be undeniable. In many ways, I think, the progress in Cleveland is more impressive than Columbus.

And true, population is not the only indicator of success. Where I live, Boston, declined for decades by almost 300,000 people and is still about 150,000 Short of its peak historical population. Does that mean Columbus is better off than Boston or that New England is just garbage?

I really only counted 2 posters, and only 1 living in Columbus, that said anything bad about Cleveland. Columbus gets more than that in almost every thread here, and there are very few Columbus posters that respond. Cleveland at least, has a brigade.

Cleveland's downtown progress is arguably more impressive, but I think Columbus overall is leaps and bounds ahead in terms of overall conditions. That's not a bash, I just think Cleveland has a lot more work to do.

[1watertiger]

Originally Posted by jbcmh81

I really only counted 2 posters, and only 1 living in Columbus, that said anything bad about Cleveland. Columbus gets more than that in almost every thread here, and there are very few Columbus posters that respond. Cleveland at least, has a brigade.

Cleveland's downtown progress is arguably more impressive, but I think Columbus overall is leaps and bounds ahead in terms of overall conditions. That's not a bash, I just think Cleveland has a lot more work to do.

Cleveland metro has leveled out and has basically flat growth, compared to the hundreds of thousands that have left the city proper in the last 50 yrs. It was a hard fall but no denying it shows a leveling out.
Cleveland still has a major crime problem to deal with and a school system that is still broken. But this is a symptom of the high poverty rate, and high fatherless families that inhabit our black neighborhoods on the east side. Black on black crime is out of control with one of the highest murder rates in the USA. Yes Cleveland has a long way to go on these issues.
But I'm curious jbcmh81, what do you mean when you state "Columbus overall is leaps and bounds ahead of Cleveland in overall conditions".?

[bjimmy24]

Originally Posted by jbcmh81

I really only counted 2 posters, and only 1 living in Columbus, that said anything bad about Cleveland. Columbus gets more than that in almost every thread here, and there are very few Columbus posters that respond. Cleveland at least, has a brigade.

Cleveland's downtown progress is arguably more impressive, but I think Columbus overall is leaps and bounds ahead in terms of overall conditions. That's not a bash, I just think Cleveland has a lot more work to do.

Downtown and university circle and ohio city are all simply tremendous turnarounds. Tremont was basically the ghetto. Detroit Shoreway was heading that way. North collinwood too. The flats were gone completely. All of these places are now back and even desirable. Columbus has had no such turnaround, hence why I think the progress is more impressive. My parents would never voluntarily go to Ohio city 15 years ago. Now they go almost every weekend and they're like 60. Just saying the comeback is really incredible. Columbus never fell that hard. Not hating on it, just saying the progress isn't as dramatic in my opinion.

But yeah, also disagree on the leaps and bounds thing.

[WRnative]

Originally Posted by bjimmy24

Downtown and university circle and ohio city are all simply tremendous turnarounds. Tremont was basically the ghetto. Detroit Shoreway was heading that way. North collinwood too. The flats were gone completely. All of these places are now back and even desirable. Columbus has had no such turnaround, hence why I think the progress is more impressive. My parents would never voluntarily go to Ohio city 15 years ago. Now they go almost every weekend and they're like 60. Just saying the comeback is really incredible. Columbus never fell that hard. Not hating on it, just saying the progress isn't as dramatic in my opinion.

But yeah, also disagree on the leaps and bounds thing.

You never saw German Village in the early 1970s. Its turnaround, given the premium prices for properties there today, probably dwarfs anything in Cleveland, at least to date.

However, I will say that Ohio City and Tremont are evolving into a collective area that may surpass German Village. This is because of the integration of new construction into those neighborhoods to a much, much greater extent than is allowed in German Village.

German Village will keep its charm, however. I'm not certain about Ohio City and Tremont in the long run. E.g., this development is planned across from the West Side Market.

http://archive.wkyc.com/news/smartli...-for-Ohio-City

Benefiting Ohio City and Tremont are much better mass transit (the Red Line rail rapid; RTA Ohio City bus connector, etc.) and the West Side Market (which dwarfs North Market in Columbus; however, the North Market, not located in German Village, is open every day) and the surrounding Market District, developed in the last few decades.

IMO, the big advantage of German Village is Schiller Park. None of the Ohio City/Tremont parks are comparable to Schiller Park, although the proximity to Edgewater and Wendy Park will be increasing beneficial as the bike trails connecting the Cuyahoga Valley National Park to Wendy Park are completed. Lincoln Park in Tremont also is very nice and has an outdoor pool.

Tour | Tremont: Lincoln Park Area | Cleveland Historical

Schiller Park, with almost 24 acres, is about 3 times as large as Lincoln Park.

German Village has easy access to the excellent Scioto Audubon Park.

[bjimmy24]

^ German Village was never nearly as ghetto as tremont.

[WRnative]

Originally Posted by bjimmy24

^ German Village was never nearly as ghetto as tremont.

Really?

<< By the 1950s, the area had become a slum. The city then demolished one-third of the neighborhood (between Main Street and Livingston Avenue) to make way for the new interstate highway system. The remainder of the South End was seriously deteriorated and a prime candidate for leveling.>>

HISTORY | German Village Society

It would be interesting to know which area had reached a lower level of decay/decline.

Property prices in German Village today are much higher than in Ohio City or Tremont, although property prices likely are increasing much faster in those Cleveland neighborhoods than in German Village.

I don't think either Ohio City or Tremont has any properties comparable to the high-end residential properties in German Village. However, that likely will change in the next few years.

http://www.cleveland.com/arts/index....and_laura.html

[bjimmy24]

Originally Posted by WRnative

Really?

<< By the 1950s, the area had become a slum. The city then demolished one-third of the neighborhood (between Main Street and Livingston Avenue) to make way for the new interstate highway system. The remainder of the South End was seriously deteriorated and a prime candidate for leveling.>>

HISTORY | German Village Society

It would be interesting to know which area had reached a lower level of decay/decline.

That logic was used all across the country to justify urban renewal.

[WRnative]

Originally Posted by bjimmy24

That logic was used all across the country to justify urban renewal.

What is certain is that until the Bidwells, Ohio City and Tremont haven't experienced any of the high-end residential renovations/additions that have characterized German Village in recent decades.

[bjimmy24]

Originally Posted by WRnative

What is certain is that until the Bidwells, Ohio City and Tremont haven't experienced any of the high-end residential renovations/additions that have characterized German Village in recent decades.

That's great, but I didn't even suggest that.

In my opinion, Ohio city and tremont are more impressive because they were almost completely lost, and now they're aweome. Same with east 4 street.

Ohio city is not as pricey yet, but it's way more fun than pretty much any neighborhood in ohio.

[db108108]

Shall we get out a ruler?