Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
The Proposed Development for the Longcreek Plantation Community will include multi-family housing, transitional formation housing, retail spaces, entertainment spaces, food & beverage spaces, and more! With the development of Killian Crossing and the already failed Lake Carolina project, why do we need this??? Help preserve our community by joining the effort!
For those not aware, we're constantly gathering helpful info regarding the current proposed development for the Longcreek Plantation group of communities. As most already know,Richland County Planning Commission meetings are scheduled for March and individual community meetings are ongoing. If you're not currently a member, I urge you to join the Loncreek Plantation Property Owners Web Site and/or the Longcreek Plantation Residents Facebook Group. It's difficult to share information across all the available social-networking mediums so we ask that you refer to one of these two sources for information and discussion!
Don't let Longcreek Plantation turn into another failed Lake Carolina!!! Make your Voice Heard!!!
Yeah, I would like to know more about the "failed Lake Carolina project." I haven't been to the LC town center in a while. How is that going?
I live in LongCreek, and I share the concern that adding retail space might be a risky move. If the Killian Crossing thing does take off, there would be a lot of retail saturation in the area from Killian/Clemson road to the Village at Sandhill. I don't want a bunch of empty storefronts in LongCreek. I don't know how feasible this is, but I would like a paved walking trail like they have in Lake Carolina, as well as some parks/playgrounds. Our neighborhood doesn't have sidewalks, and while our family has jogged/walked around the LongCreek loop, it feels dangerous to me. I'd love to have the ability to safely walk the kids to a nice park.
Yeah, I would like to know more about the "failed Lake Carolina project." I haven't been to the LC town center in a while. How is that going?
I live in LongCreek, and I share the concern that adding retail space might be a risky move. If the Killian Crossing thing does take off, there would be a lot of retail saturation in the area from Killian/Clemson road to the Village at Sandhill. I don't want a bunch of empty storefronts in LongCreek. I don't know how feasible this is, but I would like a paved walking trail like they have in Lake Carolina, as well as some parks/playgrounds. Our neighborhood doesn't have sidewalks, and while our family has jogged/walked around the LongCreek loop, it feels dangerous to me. I'd love to have the ability to safely walk the kids to a nice park.
yeah.. it seems that they would invest more in things like the walking trail and parks that have a definate impact on the property values as opposed to retail and run the risk of it being vacant or having some subpar retailer open up in there. I mean look at Hardscrabble Road and as you said Killian Crossing.. As those areas fill out it would be hard to have retail just in Long Creek.. The idea is noble but is it practical or marketable in a suburban development that was not designed to be a TND (Traditional Neighborhood Development)
Lake Carolina atleast has events and is more of a TND which encourages people to walk down to the commerical center. If it is not doing well now its no different than many other areas of the economy when it comes to retail.. But as the economy picks up and Lake Carolina is built out .. I can only imagine that it will get better.. but that because it was designed that way not added as an after thought.
As a Lake Carolina resident, this proposed development kind of intrigues me.
Some thoughts:
First, I do think the post-bubble market has re-oriented itself from (a) people of all life stages maximizing the square footage of their homes for "resale" value, including empty nesters who don't necessarily need the space to (b) people purchasing homes appropriate for their life stage and lifestyle and not necessarily gunning for the best home "investment". This is probably a good thing as the new reality of mortgage lending has forced more people to look at how they actually live and not necessarily look at robust future appreciation.
To that extent, if done right with the right landscaping, spacing, and visual appeal, I think a series of upscale patio homes could work in LongCreek. Wouldn't it be nice if grandparents could purchase a high-quality low-maintenance home in the same neighborhood as their kids and grandkids, but with a smaller square footage and acreage? The model I'm thinking of is Peach Grove Villas by Epcon Communities on Earth Road between Clemson & Spears Creek Church Roads (near the entrance of Woodcreek Farms). Now, conceivable there are "bad" examples such as some of the small, tightly-packed vinyl boxes in parts of the Summit and Villages at Longtown (the latter being just to the south of LongCreek), but I'm thinking the developer is definitely looking at upper-middle-class homestyles, especially on or near the lakefront. So while there are probably legitimate concerns on increased density, traffic, etc., I think it's hyperbolic to think this revised development concept will bring significantly less desirable suburban/urban dynamics in the heart of LongCreek (see the comments in LongCreek neighbors concerned about new development - WIS News 10 - Columbia, South Carolina | - "multi-family" can mean upscale Peach Grove Villas-type neighborhoods, it doesn't automatically mean "Section 8" or dense commercial).
Without seeing good artistic renditions and a solid master plan for the revised development plan, I can't say for sure what the developer is planning, but my impression is that they will not radically deviate from LongCreek's general feel and nature.
Now, as to "internal" commercial services like dry-cleaner's, etc., I'll admit I'm more skeptical on their long-term viability since I've seen what's happened to the Lake Carolina town center. Now, first thing to note is that the Lake Carolina town center was a big victim of the property bubble - speculators had bought the commercial properties and then charged high rents. What this meant is that sound businesspeople who knew rents were too hight avoided the town center, but the town center attracted less-than-prepared/experienced entrepreneurs, and so from the about mid-2000's until recently there was a lot of turnover in the commercial properties. Now that the financial bubble has deflated and I presume rents may have become more reasonable and/or only sound businesspeople have the resources to sustain a business, there has been some more stability in the tentants the last 2-3 years or so. The Butcher Shop at one end of the commercial strip, for example, finally seems to have settled in with steady business, whereas there were like 2-3 restaurants in that spot in the previous several years. The town center is not out of the woods yet (there are still vacant properties to be filled), but things look better now.
Another thing is that regardless of the financial/rent situation of the tenant businesses, I think it was a big mistake to isolate the town center from direct Hardscrabble Road frontage. As noted by Woodlands, it was a noble concept to have an internal "self contained" commercial district supposedly serving LC residents, but practically speaking I've only seen such commercial portions of master-planned communities work when they are connected to the regional arterial road system and can service outside customers as well. Grocery-anchored strip centers appear to do well, although more care has to be taken perhaps to not have its heavier traffic demand impact the rest of development. This is what would worry me about any "ambitious" commercial component to LongCreek - not that it would bring in more traffic, but it would be too small and too isolated from local major roads to be economically viable for businesses - there is already a commercial node just south of the neighborhood at Lee/Longreen & Longtown. It is conceivable a few boutique businesses could work (e.g., a dry cleaner as mentioned by the developer), but I don't think a Lake Carolina-style town center would work nor do I think that's what the developer probably has in mind.
Again, I'm sure a lot of residents are understably anxious about a change coming to their neighborhood in LongCreek, but I think there can be a "right" way to bring in a different type of development that's still consistent with the LongCreek environment. It's the residents' right to demand information from the developer and Richland County officials, but it's not helpful to be paranoid about taxes, schools, "apartments", etc.
Yeah its interesting that people do not trust developers (anymore) Though they say "this will be a world class development....." they ultimately will do what puts the greatest amount of money in their pocket in the shortest amount of time. We can list scores of developments that started out as one thing and then ended up something entirely different. The dog in pony show is nice in front of the elected officials at the public hearing and then a monster is dropped into the middle of a community and starts devouring property values..So I cant say I totally blame the residents for being skeptical.
The whole "section 8" arguement is also aligned with this line of thinking.. "we plan to build a nice multi family development to complement the community". That works well for about 10 years.. then as lifestyles change and housing preferences change. .those once nice apartments are sold and resold and become less than desirable as they struggle to attract tenants with higher incomes who either buy homes or prefer the next "new" apt complex going up somewhere up the street. I have seen once nice apartment complexes over time become akin to a "project". You can look up and down Broad River Road and see fine examples of this. Granted this happening in LongCreek is an extreme. .but now with people being stuck in their homes longer and the values not nearly providing the returns they once were.. I can see how this concern is always in the back of a homeowners mind when a developer starts singing multi familiy in a single family neighborhood
The whole "section 8" arguement is also aligned with this line of thinking.. "we plan to build a nice multi family development to complement the community". That works well for about 10 years.. then as lifestyles change and housing preferences change. .those once nice apartments are sold and resold and become less than desirable as they struggle to attract tenants with higher incomes who either buy homes or prefer the next "new" apt complex going up somewhere up the street. I have seen once nice apartment complexes over time become akin to a "project". You can look up and down Broad River Road and see fine examples of this. Granted this happening in LongCreek is an extreme. .but now with people being stuck in their homes longer and the values not nearly providing the returns they once were.. I can see how this concern is always in the back of a homeowners mind when a developer starts singing multi familiy in a single family neighborhood
Yes, I can understand the dynamic you are describing. I think it at least somewhat depends on the physical nature, quality, and layout of a multi-family development. Like I said, an upscale series of nice patio homes on the line of Peach Grove Villas off Earth Road could, with the right landscaping, trails, amenities, etc., fit in well in LongCreek, and hopefully they will retain their value and attract citizens/neighbors befitting LongCreek's stable and upwardly mobile environment.
On the other hand, a true apartment complex can often go from luxury to "projects" depending on turnover of tenants and the evolution of the surrounding area. A good example might be the Reserve at Lake Carolina, just south of the Lake Carolina proper. It is a pretty well-layed out apartment complex with good amenities and access to LC's trails, etc. Many middle and upper middle class folks who were waiting for their single-family homes to be built in LC or other nearby neighborhoods like Crickentree, particularly out-of-region transplants, have lived there. However, especially after the collpase of the housing boom, I could conceivably see this apartment complex decline steadily over time. Perhaps not full-blown Decker/Broad River Rd. decline, but something similar to the somewhat sketchy apartment complexes and cheap patio home developments nearby off Hardscrabble. This especially as my sense is that many if not most neighborhoods inside of the Clemson Road semi-loop are declining in their desirability. I'd even argue than anything inside the Longtown/Lee/Summit corridor is becoming less desirable, unfortunately leaving an elite exurban fringe from Blythewood to Elgin, a potentially stagnating swath of relatively new suburbia inside of than, with some scattered islands of upscale established neighborhoods like Spring Valley.
I don't understand where there's supposed to be room for this extra development? I thought that was the nice part about LongCreek Plantation. Woodsy areas, nice developments, no commercial development around. There are plenty of good places nearby such as the Villages at Sandhills.
HardScrabble Road is well over capacity, so is Lee Road. All the additional traffic, especially on the roads in and around LongCreek need to be addressed first. They are well over capacity, poorly routed, laid out, daily accidents, and need to be dealt with.
Until Hard Scrabble Road, Lee Road, and the surround areas/roads are fixed up to support the additional people...sewer systems, power, gas, etc all need to be fixed up to handle the capacity. It's not like there aren't infinite homes and developments around to choose from in Northeast Columbia already.
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
