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Galaxie Girl wrote: 2) Why do you want to leave = state is too liberal, leading to over-regulation of everything in life. Anti-business, anti-property rights, anti-gun, etc. I know CO isn't perfect, but it's much better than CA.
Without having actually lived in Colorado, I'm wondering what makes you believe that, "CO isn't perfect, but it's much better than CA"
With regard to the anti-business claim that you make about California.
#1....I have several friends in California who run their own businesses...quite successfully
#2....If you are struggling to get a business going in CA, you are not likely to find the going any easier in Colorado
If a liberal mindset is not to your liking, you might feel more comfortable in California. In certain regards, Colorado is MORE liberal than California. Two examples come readily to mind:
*Colorado has stricter gun laws than California.
*Recreational marijuana is legal in Colorado, but not in California
Galaxie Girl wrote: 2) Why do you want to leave = state is too liberal, leading to over-regulation of everything in life. Anti-business, anti-property rights, anti-gun, etc. I know CO isn't perfect, but it's much better than CA.
Without having actually lived in Colorado, I'm wondering what makes you believe that, "CO isn't perfect, but it's much better than CA"
With regard to the anti-business claim that you make about California.
#1....I have several friends in California who run their own businesses...quite successfully
#2....If you are struggling to get a business going in CA, you are not likely to find the going any easier in Colorado
If a liberal mindset is not to your liking, you might feel more comfortable in California. In certain regards, Colorado is MORE liberal than California. Two examples come readily to mind:
*Colorado has stricter gun laws than California.
*Recreational marijuana is legal in Colorado, but not in California
Plus, Colorado is home to the People's Republic of Boulder which is so horridly communist-socialist-leftie crazy that its attitude spills over and tarnishes the entire rest of the state. Why, even way out here in Montezuma County, Californians (and others) are not allowed to build properties in the local floodplain which encompasses the Dolores River drainage. That thing wasn't named "River of Sorrow" fer nuthin. Californians scream and cry about this and it's even made headlines in the local papers recently. Evil liberal Montezuma County officials refuse to budge on this ordinance, however. If I were you, I'd move to Alabama instead.
Galaxie Girl wrote: 2) Why do you want to leave = state is too liberal, leading to over-regulation of everything in life. Anti-business, anti-property rights, anti-gun, etc. I know CO isn't perfect, but it's much better than CA.
Without having actually lived in Colorado, I'm wondering what makes you believe that, "CO isn't perfect, but it's much better than CA"
With regard to the anti-business claim that you make about California.
#1....I have several friends in California who run their own businesses...quite successfully
#2....If you are struggling to get a business going in CA, you are not likely to find the going any easier in Colorado
Based on the research I've done, CO is, overall, more business-friendly than CA. CO regularly ranks as one of the most business-friendly states. Sure, there are lots of successful businesses here. My father-in-law is the head of a small engineering firm here in CA and manages to make it work. However, the burdensome regulations and costs for someone to start or maintain a business in this state does not compare to CO (or most states, for that matter). Many business owners leave this state each year due to the costs and regulations, and other companies decide against opening up in CA.
CO is also more property owner-friendly than CA. If you are familiar with the landlord tenant laws of each state, you know the difference is night and day. My husband and I own rentals in CA and AZ (also a property owner-friendly state), and have had to do evictions in both states. CA took over 3 months. AZ took about 3 weeks, and from my research, CO evictions take about 3-4 weeks. CA also has more forms and notices you have to deal with, and god forbid you own in a rent control area (we don't), it's much worse. CO actually forbids rent control in the state! And CA courts are notoriously pro-tenant.
And CA has a super-majority of Dems in the state legislature (which means they don't need any Reps to vote for anything in order to pass it), which is clearly frightening. There's been pushes to force landlords to pay interest on security deposits, state-wide rent control, etc. They even want to do away with Prop 13 (state amendment that caps property taxes at 1% with a max of 2% increase per year) for non-owner occupied properties, like rentals. As if we won't pass that increase on to the renters??? We aren't running a charity here.
Plus, CO has TABOR!
Anyway, I'm kinda venting here, but I don't think anyone would argue that CA is one of the most over-regulated states in the US.
Quote:
If a liberal mindset is not to your liking, you might feel more comfortable in California. In certain regards, Colorado is MORE liberal than California. Two examples come readily to mind:
*Colorado has stricter gun laws than California.
*Recreational marijuana is legal in Colorado, but not in California
Your first bullet point (no pun intended) is simply not true. We have to register guns here, for one thing. I know you guys passed that magazine limit earlier this year (and I cheered the recall of those 2 state senators!), but your state had all kinds of uproar about that. That would never get that kind of attention in CA. Also, our Governor Moonbeam recently signed more gun laws, one of which bans lead bullets for hunting. Another one he just signed requires rifle buyers to earn "safety certificates," which is already required for handgun buyers. CA has an "assault weapons" ban, CO does not. CA severely limits open carry, CO generally allows it.
As for mj, I'm not a fan, but it's not a deal-breaker item for me. Plus, El Paso county is not allowing recreational mj (although I'm sure people will bring it in from other counties). I think it will eventually get sorted out nationally, and it will then be moot.
Quote:
Plus, Colorado is home to the People's Republic of Boulder which is so horridly communist-socialist-leftie crazy that its attitude spills over and tarnishes the entire rest of the state. Why, even way out here in Montezuma County, Californians (and others) are not allowed to build properties in the local floodplain which encompasses the Dolores River drainage. That thing wasn't named "River of Sorrow" fer nuthin. Californians scream and cry about this and it's even made headlines in the local papers recently. Evil liberal Montezuma County officials refuse to budge on this ordinance, however. If I were you, I'd move to Alabama instead.
We've got the bay area and LA which run CA. OC and most rural counties actually tend to go red, but SF and LA are so populous that we get ignored.
As for Alabama, I had to cross off the right half of the country due to tornadoes, hurricanes, severe winters, and humidity. Also, I don't think they'd take too kindly to a non-religious person like me. Even if I were to become Christian, I'm sure I wouldn't be the "right kind."
As I've said many times, Colorado may not be as big a "nanny state" as California, but it's heading that way very fast now, and is making some of its own bad policy mistakes that are making the state more and more economically unfriendly, especially to small businesses. Since economic research was a major part of my work for many years and I'm intimately familiar with Colorado's political workings, I probably know Colorado's overall business and economic climate better than most. It should tell you something, then, that I have left Colorado and I am divesting myself of my last Colorado real estate holdings as quickly as I can. I still do some business in Colorado, but I'm no longer so heavily exposed to the state's increasingly hostile economic environment.
As I've said many times, Colorado may not be as big a "nanny state" as California, but it's heading that way very fast now, and is making some of its own bad policy mistakes that are making the state more and more economically unfriendly, especially to small businesses. Since economic research was a major part of my work for many years and I'm intimately familiar with Colorado's political workings, I probably know Colorado's overall business and economic climate better than most. It should tell you something, then, that I have left Colorado and I am divesting myself of my last Colorado real estate holdings as quickly as I can. I still do some business in Colorado, but I'm no longer so heavily exposed to the state's increasingly hostile economic environment.
I don't know that I would agree that it's heading that way "very fast" but I agree that it's heading that way, as is the country overall. There has been a lot of upheaval in CO due to some of the laws your state passed and signed; that kind of blow back would not happen in CA today. CO still has low taxes and property rights, which is very appealing. That said, what state (or states) do you consider to be doing better than CO? I'm always open to ideas, although climate conditions are fairly limiting for us. Based on the research I've done for our requirements, CO still seems like a pretty good fit for us.
1) Current City and State = Findlay, OH (northwest Ohio)
2) Why do you want to leave = Way too conservative and unfriendly, no outdoor recreation (no mountains!), boring
3) Where In Colorado and Why = Boulder, Golden, Fort Collins, or anywhere along the Front Range for easy access to the mountains, great places to run and cycle, snowboarding, beautiful scenery
4) 2nd and 3rd Place States = Considered California for awhile (too expensive), otherwise nothing
5)What’s currently holding you back from moving = Saving money at current job, looking for an engineering job in Co
6) Anything else you want to tell us that we dont know? = Any recommendations for areas to look with a lot of mechanical engineering jobs for a recent graduate (2013)?
EDIT: the formatting keeps getting all messed up. Sorry if this is difficult to read
Look at all of Denver. Anywhere around the city will be more liberal, and have more outdoor opportunities.
I don't know that I would agree that it's heading that way "very fast" but I agree that it's heading that way, as is the country overall. There has been a lot of upheaval in CO due to some of the laws your state passed and signed; that kind of blow back would not happen in CA today. CO still has low taxes and property rights, which is very appealing. That said, what state (or states) do you consider to be doing better than CO? I'm always open to ideas, although climate conditions are fairly limiting for us. Based on the research I've done for our requirements, CO still seems like a pretty good fit for us.
First of all, TABOR (which you mentioned above) is one of the worst laws ever enacted in Colorado--not because of its revenue limitation component, but because a whole lot of other stuff buried in it that will eventually strangle and bankrupt even essential public services, most notably those provided by the relatively efficient small taxing entities controlled at the local level. Worse yet, that piece of crap is buried in the Colorado Constitution, where modifying it is next to impossible. TABOR was a multiple subject Amendment enacted before a subsequent Amendment to the Colorado Constitution was passed limiting ballot initiatives to a single subject. So, there are about a dozen very dangerous provisions lurking in TABOR that now can only be removed from the Colorado Constitution by holding a separate, expensive election on each provision. I'm about as a staunch conservative on fiscal matters as one can get, but the revenure limitation provisions of TABOR are far overshadowed by the other profoundly disastrous provisions it cemented into the Colorado Constitution. It is a major reason that I've given up on Colorado--I see what is coming fiscally to the state. By the way, I spent years doing economic research as part of my job, and TABOR was a major subject of my research and studies.
Want to find a good state for both living and business? Here is what to look for:
A state with a population that is not in excess of what can be supported with natural resources, public infrastructure, business employment base, and tax revenues.
A state with a balanced tax structure that is relatively stable in revenue generation--where no group is singled out for preferential treatment, either favorable or unfavorable.
A state that balances a "friendly" business climate with maintaining a decent quality of life for its residents.
A state that is not over-reliant on government employment, especially the federal government or the military.
A state with a decent "primary industry" base--agriculture and/or natural resources--where resources are used responsibly and are not near depletion.
A state that invests and maintains a good public primary, secondary, and higher education system that is efficient, effective, and adequately funded over the long term.
A state where the criminal justice system is dedicated to protecting the public safety first and foremost.
Now, no state that I know of will meet all of that criteria (unfortunately). That said, Colorado flunks on a bunch of that list--and the trend is going the wrong direction on many of them. As for California, it flunks on just about all of them. By the way, the first item on my list is the most important in my book. If a state can't meet that criteria, then it will eventually flunk on the rest. And, yuppers, Colorado already flunks on that first one, in my book.
Yep Tabor is an insidious snake in the grass, much like it's author. Jazz's list is good litmus test for those of us that have been watching the decline of our beloved state and most of the country. Very few places are left that can meet that criteria anymore. Wyoming comes to mind as one that comes close.
2) Why do you want to leave = Let's start with...Air and light pollution - Local government and it's history - Soon to be lack of water - Crime - Driving theatrics - Hot, hotter and you got to be kiddin' - Overcrowded - Massive influx of illegals (debate the word if you want...it doesn't change their status) - Gut feeling that I am merely 'existing' and not 'living' - Palo Verde Nuclear Plant - The high cost of electricity (Remember: Hot, hotter and you got to be kiddin') - The high cost of water - Greed - I feel boxed in...No views - Dying saguaros (heartbreaking) - And the biggest...The biggest of them all is the people, particularly those that imposed their will, to change this desert into something where they moved from and those that came before or the locals that are willing to change it for them.
3) Where In Colorado and Why = Five miles outside Salida. It's everything that Glendale, AZ is not. While I know Salida is no 'utopia' (what place on earth is?), it is far removed from everything I listed above. I like to include that it is very laid back...Something I will need to learn.
4) 2nd and 3rd Place States = IF my wife out lives me, then no 2nd's and 3rd's. If I, by chance, out live my wife then I wouldn't be able to continue to live in our custom home (See: "Anything else you want to tell us that we dont know?" for additional info). Too many memories and I would follow through with a living trust and let our only grandchild inherited the home. Then, I would consider moving, if capable, to Bend (OR) or Montana.
5) What’s currently holding you back from moving = Nothing at all. In fact, we're doing it!
6) Anything else you want to tell us that we dont know? = My chosen career in life was a residential designer. I am retired now at the insistence of my wife. I designed over hundreds of custom homes for a variety of clients. My last project was our custom home specifically designed for our acreage in CO. My wife and I, have been our most difficult client to deal with to date. None the less, we have been for the most part, agreeable in our choices in color, finishes and style. A lot went into this home and really?...I can hardly wait to be carrying the final load through the four corners area into Colorado.
BTW - I am a true to life native Zonie for the last 59 years. If we change anything and the only thing in CO, it will be the political atmosphere in votes and nothing more.
2) Why do you want to leave = 3 months of summer and 9 months of winter
3) Where In Colorado and Why = Colorado Springs, my son and DIL live there, I visited last year and loved it
4) 2nd and 3rd Place States =Washington Utah
5) What’s currently holding you back from moving = waiting for my house to sell
6) Anything else you want to tell us that we dont know? =no Last edited by JCFLIGHTS; 01-06-2008 at 03:00 AM..
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