Denver Post Article: COS turning out streetlights to save on the electric bill (Colorado Springs: maintenance, property taxes)

[formercalifornian]

Originally Posted by Bob from down south

It is entirely appropriate to impugn her credibility, based on her youth and lack of mature comprehension that helicopters lighting up carloads of drunks cruising the streets at night is not a normal law-enforcement capability. A student in criminal justice should know that, but she saw fit to bring it up, and she's "exasperated" that the helicopter can't be there to keep her safe from marauding carloads of drunks? Whether we call her her snotty-nosed, wet-behind-the-ears, or clueless, it doesn't matter to me, but she's not credible just because she took a couple classes in criminal justice and occasions the streets from time to time like most of the rest of us.

This nation survived 175 years without a single helicopter police patrol...it's an extravagance, not a necessity. Patrol cars and radios, properly employed, can get the job done without a multimillion dollar rotary-wing police patrol that costs thousands of dollars every hour it's in the air.

I won't argue with you that helicopters are an extravagant law enforcement tool, but I don't think it was her intent to imply that they are necessary for tracking carloads of drunks. It's a poorly placed quote that was probably edited for space. I think she deserves the benefit of the doubt. The article's writer, however, deserves chastisement.

[Curious in CT]

All that is going on in this wonderful city has really struck me emotionally. I moved 1,800 miles way to live out here with my family for a better life. I read over and over again about the conservative people here and I never really understood what that meant coming from a liberal state. Wow.....is all I can say. Does anyone here realize how LOW taxes here are and how low they still would be if we increased by a little???? Does anyone truly understand this? My husband and I come to realize now that all those high taxes we cursed about back east were actually not a bad thing and we simply took for granted all the ammenities we recieved because we paid for them and let me tell you, it was nice having all those services. I now miss those things.

Yes, it really puts a dent in your wallet and yes, it sucks...but how else does anyone expect to keep parks beautiful and buses running and streets lit and schools operating. Not to mention, not having to worry whether the PD will get to your door in a timely manner no matter the priority because it will, in due time become more difficult to do when they continue to operate with fewer and fewer officers, and in turn, put more of a risk for everyone, including those who serve. Nothing is free people!!!!!!!!!!! On that note, I just want to say that I understand the mistrust between the citizens and the government here. It needs to change. It's run very poorly. It's a double edged sword out here.

I am so sad and angry at the same time. What a shame. I love this place. The few things that are being cut right now, in my opinion, are going to create one heck of ripple affect for years to come. And don't even get me started with the TABOR thing......what on earth is that about? How is that a good thing for anyone? Everything seems so backwards out here....I'm sorry. I don't want to offend anyone, but OMG...seriously.

[Fullback32]

The problem is that the things they cut are calculated in order to frighten and/or blackmail the voters into giving them the tax hikes they want. This city and county government does not have the political guts to cut spending where it really needs to be cut. How is TABOR good? Simple, it makes them accountable to the voters and demands they live within their means. Does it need to be tweaked? Probably, but I prefer it to governments' just deciding that they are going to dig deeper into my pocket without my permission. I work for me and my family and those I wish to share the fruits of my labor with....that's it. How is big government at any level a good thing for anyone? Also not trying to offend, but OMG...seriously.

"Still one thing more, fellow-citizens—a wise and frugal Government, which shall restrain men from injuring one another, shall leave them otherwise free to regulate their own pursuits of industry and improvement, and shall not take from the mouth of labor the bread it has earned. This is the sum of good government, and this is necessary to close the circle of our felicities."

Thomas Jefferson
First Inaugural Address
Wednesday, March 4, 1801

[Bob from down south]

Originally Posted by Curious in CT

All that is going on in this wonderful city has really struck me emotionally. I moved 1,800 miles way to live out here with my family for a better life. I read over and over again about the conservative people here and I never really understood what that meant coming from a liberal state. Wow.....is all I can say. Does anyone here realize how LOW taxes here are and how low they still would be if we increased by a little???? Does anyone truly understand this? My husband and I come to realize now that all those high taxes we cursed about back east were actually not a bad thing and we simply took for granted all the ammenities we recieved because we paid for them and let me tell you, it was nice having all those services. I now miss those things.

They still sell one-way bus tickets to Connecticut. That I do truly understand...

Originally Posted by Curious in CT

Yes, it really puts a dent in your wallet and yes, it sucks...but how else does anyone expect to keep parks beautiful and buses running and streets lit and schools operating.

How??!!??

Volunteer in your neighborhood park, and pay bus fares commensurate with the costs of operating them. Accept that maybe, just maybe, nighttime isn't supposed to look like daytime or God would have put two suns up there for us. Get schools focused on actual education rather than nonessentials like football, marching band, swim team, free lunches, etc.

Originally Posted by Curious in CT

Not to mention, not having to worry whether the PD will get to your door in a timely manner no matter the priority because it will, in due time become more difficult to do when they continue to operate with fewer and fewer officers, and in turn, put more of a risk for everyone, including those who serve.

I don't worry about that when I see three cruisers parked for an hour behind a disabled vehicle, or see speed traps all over town. If the PD doesn't show up right away, the Second Amendment has that covered. When I lived back east, when something went "bump" in the night, people expected you to dial 911 and then go hide under your bed like a cornered rat. When I was growing up, if someone was breaking into the house you didn't get to the phone until after getting out the deer rifle and jacking a round into the chamber.

This is a perfect example of how people have come to expect that the responsibility for something as basic as their own personal safety is not theirs, it belongs instead to the nanny state.

Originally Posted by Curious in CT

Nothing is free people!!!!!!!!!!!

But price is no object when you're spending your neighbors' money, right?

Originally Posted by Curious in CT

I am so sad and angry at the same time. What a shame. I love this place. The few things that are being cut right now, in my opinion, are going to create one heck of ripple affect for years to come. And don't even get me started with the TABOR thing......what on earth is that about? How is that a good thing for anyone? Everything seems so backwards out here....I'm sorry. I don't want to offend anyone, but OMG...seriously.

I reiterate my observation on easy availability of one-way tickets back east. But you should expect a shock to find the people back there are coming around to our way of thinking. Think "election in Massachussets."

This is the West. Rugged. Individual. Not forgiving of fools. And I don't really care if I offend anyone that has desires for more government handouts with my money.

[Terytee]

The bottom line is that the issue was voted on democratically and voted down. Agree or disagree with the results.......doesn't really matter. The people spoke and spoke with their votes. It's done. That's how it works, right? All the griping about it isn't going to reverse the vote. We have to move on and deal with it.

[mollygee]

After watching the city council members and the mayor, listening to concerned people about tent city last night, I am convinced that the majority of our council have been replaced by robots.

There should be a test, before someone can run for a government position. The most important skill should be: do you have COMMON SENSE?

Spending millions on USOC and a dangerous bridge at Union and Austin Bluffs and then punishing people, for not wanting to TRIPLE property taxes is beyond logic.

Sometimes, what may look good on paper, or computer graphs, when you are cutting oh, a million here a million there (just like my budget) on paper, it does not take the human aspect into consideration.

The city council sits up on their podiums, like they are playing king and queens of a kingdom that they really do not have the heart or soul to to do. Where are the rational choices?

Hopefully, when we VOTE again for mayor and city council, people that run and are elected will be PROUD to make choices for people that love this area and call Colorado Springs, home.

While I am on my soap box this morning; where is the city manager?

If we have a CITY OWNED utility; why are the street lights off? The cost is probably just one of those paper transfers.

Come on, bring back the bus system and trash cans in parks and turn the lights back on. The city is still here.

Molly

[Curious in CT]

Got it...... Bob from down South. I knew my opinion would P off someone.

[COflower]

Originally Posted by mollygee

If we have a CITY OWNED utility; why are the street lights off? The cost is probably just one of those paper transfers.

Since CSU is a city-owned enterprise, they operate separately from the city government though the city council is the governing board similar to a major corporation who has a governing board that oversees two brands (companies) yet the banking industry sees them as separate liabilities (the corporation that is).

The same situation occurs with Memorial Hospital. City-owned but operates separately from the core government operations and is not tax based and not tax funded...so if there was a city health department (instead of or separate from the El Paso County Health Department) it too would have similar cuts but Memorial could not absorb any of the costs because it's a separate entity and not tax payer funded.

Simply put, CSUtilities is completely separate from City of Colorado Springs on the books. The City of Colorado Springs is a customer of CSU though they share some same interests.

Hope that makes sense.

[COflower]

BTW, a little slow to the marker but The Gazette finally wrote an article on the fact the national news has picked this up: National media focusing on Springs budget cuts

I copy and pasted my comment over here on the article comments...but why is the Gazette so slow sometimes to report these things?

So yes, just a heads up, that is actually me doing the cutting and pasting of the comments I've made in the case there is some concern that someone hijacked my words.

[Bob from down south]

Yeah, Paul Krugman, Nobel Prize-winning economist and columnist in the NY Times tried to make it sound like cutting back on some street lighting and park maintenance was something akin to becoming a modern-day Tombstone AZ.

My bet is that the man has never been here before. And together with Obama's win this year, it shows just how worthless the Nobel Prize has become.

Free Nobel Prize With Oil Change (http://debatebothsides.com/showthread.php?83810-Free-Noble-Prize-with-Oil-Change - broken link)