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Honestly the guy in this article isn't too resourceful.
He lives in California, which has a great public university system. He could've easily gone to community college (there are SO many around orange county), transfer to a UC/state college and saved thousands while getting a top notch education. Work-study is quite easy to obtain and with scholarship and grants, he shouldn't be so far behind in debt.
And if he's barely scratching by, why in the world is he living in orange county? That county is one of the most expensive in California.
Word.
The article did not mention it, but I bet the guy got a shiny new car for a graduation gift that he's paying on now. He would be far from the first to do that.
Besides, if you can't find a job in accounting, maybe it's time to...move where the jobs are!
My sister is 32 and has a similar debt load from U of Phoenix even though she could have womanned up and hopped in that Chevy Blazer that she's upside down on and gone to any other school her GI Bill would cover...for free, basically! No, she had to be home for the kid when she was already living at home...oh well, she gets to worry about her one month old apartment lease while getting herself canned from OSHA last week.
Sob stories sell more than personal responsibility these days.
With that much credit card debt I don't feel too sorry for him. You can get student loans to cover meal plans, and summer jobs alone cover the rest of your expenses (this is how I did it). If you aren't going out drinking all the time, there is really no reason to have credit card debt as a college grad. Work on internships/co-ops starting your freshman year. By the time you graduate, you can easily have a few companies that know you and know your work. If you don't start looking for a job until after you graduate, you shouldn't be too surprised if you can't find one. I graduated in 2008 and started talking to HR managers with the company I now work for when I was a sophomore. By the time I graduated I didn't even need to apply. I knew a VP personally, I did an internship with them, It was a very easy process. I just had to start looking two years before I graduated.
It must be nice to live in your fantasy world. I only wish the world was more like that.
I'm on a full tuition scholarship so I will graduate with no loans thanks to the help my parents and grandparents are giving me for room and board. However, I'm in credit card debt because of medical problems and the fact that I chose to study abroad during a financial crisis. I've been abroad now in 3 countries for 10 out of the past 12 months. While these experiences have been essential to my international relations degree, they also mean that when I have a medical emergency I fall into debt. I have not been able to legally work in a year. Perhaps spending a summer studying engineering and economics in Iceland, doing independent research, and working with government and business officials there was not the wisest financial decision (though much was covered by scholarship). But when it comes down to it, which looks better- doing intense study and research in a foreign country for a summer or working a minimum wage job as a hostess in a restaurant? I think the former and the business contacts I have agree.
Also, where are all of these summer jobs? My brother has been home from college for 2 weeks and applied to a good 20 places: no one is hiring. I have a snowball's chance in hell getting anything because I am returning to the States a full month after most other college students were done. That left me out of internships as well. I was accepted to 4 of the 30 or so I applied for and told to report on May 15th. When I responded that I could not start until June 10th, all offers were rescinded. Not to mention that internships don't pay in 95% of cases: the last internship I worked was a good 70 hours a week of work without pay and I was "on call" which made working very difficult.
Heck, even the Walmarts aren't hiring in my town. And with no car (and certainly not about to buy a car with no job), most places of employment write me off straight away.
I will be working, taking 6 classes, AND working an internship all of next year. Unfortunately, even though my college is in the Boston area with tons of job opportunities, most internships have taken away their paid positions over the past year. Yes, it is important to get the work experience but I will be doing an entry level job with no pay. There's no other way about it. My job will be solely to pay off medical bills and since I don't go to a school where you really have any choice in your class schedule (many courses I need are only offered once a year or even once every 2 or 3 years), I can't exactly work normal hours. Many others are in that boat.
Most scholarships also do not allow for you to go to school for more than 4 years. When I'm now getting scholarship money for $40,000ish a year, it doesn't make sense to take a lower class load and graduate a year later since I couldn't work enough to recoup that money.
I don't know what this specific man in the article did to get where he is. I just know that from my perspective, his story is typical even among the most responsible of people. Medical issues happen and throw you into debt, financial aid doesn't come through, and no one is hiring. Even with degrees like accounting or law degrees and work experience, most of my friends are working in Starbucks because there simply are not entry level jobs.
Next year, I'll graduate and I have indeed been looking for potential jobs since I was a freshman in college. The fact is, just because I happen to know key members of the EPA and the CDC (my ideal jobs) doesn't mean that jobs will suddenly materialize for me. I'd venture to guess the job market for a 2008 grad was much brighter than that for a 2009 or even 2010 grad.
It must be nice to live in your fantasy world. I only wish the world was more like that.
I'm on a full tuition scholarship so I will graduate with no loans thanks to the help my parents and grandparents are giving me for room and board. However, I'm in credit card debt because of medical problems and the fact that I chose to study abroad during a financial crisis. I've been abroad now in 3 countries for 10 out of the past 12 months. While these experiences have been essential to my international relations degree, they also mean that when I have a medical emergency I fall into debt. I have not been able to legally work in a year. Perhaps spending a summer studying engineering and economics in Iceland, doing independent research, and working with government and business officials there was not the wisest financial decision (though much was covered by scholarship). But when it comes down to it, which looks better- doing intense study and research in a foreign country for a summer or working a minimum wage job as a hostess in a restaurant? I think the former and the business contacts I have agree.
Graduating with debt is nothing new...I have debt. I think you should be smart about what you do during summers...I only looked at paid internships. Companies aren't looking for the most qualified, they are looking for the most attractive candidate. Saying this might make me look bad, but you need to give them what they want to hear, make the person interviewing you like you. That is more important than qualifications.
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Also, where are all of these summer jobs? My brother has been home from college for 2 weeks and applied to a good 20 places: no one is hiring. I have a snowball's chance in hell getting anything because I am returning to the States a full month after most other college students were done. That left me out of internships as well. I was accepted to 4 of the 30 or so I applied for and told to report on May 15th. When I responded that I could not start until June 10th, all offers were rescinded. Not to mention that internships don't pay in 95% of cases: the last internship I worked was a good 70 hours a week of work without pay and I was "on call" which made working very difficult.
Heck, even the Walmarts aren't hiring in my town. And with no car (and certainly not about to buy a car with no job), most places of employment write me off straight away.
I kept in contact with the manager at the Applebees I was a waiter at during high school, and went back to that job during my first summer (with tips, $13/hr as a waiter). The next summer was harder. I ended up moving to Wyoming for the summer (I knew no one when I went, everyone I know is in Pennsylvania). I landed a job waiting tables on a resort in yellowstone national park ($20/hr with tips). That job made me enough money to get through the next school year, I only had to move 2000 miles away from everything I knew to get it.
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I will be working, taking 6 classes, AND working an internship all of next year. Unfortunately, even though my college is in the Boston area with tons of job opportunities, most internships have taken away their paid positions over the past year. Yes, it is important to get the work experience but I will be doing an entry level job with no pay. There's no other way about it. My job will be solely to pay off medical bills and since I don't go to a school where you really have any choice in your class schedule (many courses I need are only offered once a year or even once every 2 or 3 years), I can't exactly work normal hours. Many others are in that boat.
Most scholarships also do not allow for you to go to school for more than 4 years. When I'm now getting scholarship money for $40,000ish a year, it doesn't make sense to take a lower class load and graduate a year later since I couldn't work enough to recoup that money.
I don't know what this specific man in the article did to get where he is. I just know that from my perspective, his story is typical even among the most responsible of people. Medical issues happen and throw you into debt, financial aid doesn't come through, and no one is hiring. Even with degrees like accounting or law degrees and work experience, most of my friends are working in Starbucks because there simply are not entry level jobs.
Next year, I'll graduate and I have indeed been looking for potential jobs since I was a freshman in college. The fact is, just because I happen to know key members of the EPA and the CDC (my ideal jobs) doesn't mean that jobs will suddenly materialize for me. I'd venture to guess the job market for a 2008 grad was much brighter than that for a 2009 or even 2010 grad.
Pick a few companies and talk to them. A lot. Here is how it worked with the comany I now work for.
When I was a sophomore I applied for an internship. They turned me down, said maybe I should try again next year. About once a month for the next year I emailed the HR rep, kept in touch, let them know I was still interested. my junior year I applied for the exact same intership. I got it that time (it took me a full year of talking to HR to get a summer internship). I worked my a** off at the internship and they made me a full time job offer at the end of it. It frustrates me when I see people send in one resume or write one cover letter, get turned down and then say they can't find a job. It might take a lot more effort than that. It took me a year of constant communication to land an internship. What if I would have given up and written that company off when they didn't give me the position? I would probably be unemployed as well.
I kept in contact with the manager at the Applebees I was a waiter at during high school, and went back to that job during my first summer (with tips, $13/hr as a waiter)...Pick a few companies and talk to them. A lot...When I was a sophomore I applied for an internship. They turned me down, said maybe I should try again next year. About once a month for the next year I emailed the HR rep, kept in touch, let them know I was still interested. my junior year I applied for the exact same intership. I got it that time (it took me a full year of talking to HR to get a summer internship). I worked my a** off at the internship and they made me a full time job offer at the end of it.
This is exactly how it needs to happen, and people who are not assertive are only going to end up frustrated and jaded. When you graduate from college, you are not the only person to graduate with that particular degree that year. With the case of something like accounting, the yearly graduates number in the tens of thousands +. That is a lot of competition for the same jobs.
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Originally Posted by charolastra00
It must be nice to live in your fantasy world. I only wish the world was more like that.
Condescending statements like this make you sound bitter. You seem to have good things going for you: $40,000 a year scholarship, spending the last ten months studying abroad, not to mention your room and board are covered. What's the problem? Your medical bills? That you had to resort to a credit card and are amassing a little bit of debt?
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Originally Posted by charolastra00
But when it comes down to it, which looks better- doing intense study and research in a foreign country for a summer or working a minimum wage job as a hostess in a restaurant? I think the former and the business contacts I have agree.
Both really. Employers do not hire degrees, they hire experience, and do not be naive enough to not know that working as a hostess does not count as experience.
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Originally Posted by charolastra00
Also, where are all of these summer jobs? My brother has been home from college for 2 weeks and applied to a good 20 places: no one is hiring. I have a snowball's chance in hell getting anything because I am returning to the States a full month after most other college students were done. That left me out of internships as well. I was accepted to 4 of the 30 or so I applied for and told to report on May 15th. When I responded that I could not start until June 10th, all offers were rescinded. Not to mention that internships don't pay in 95% of cases: the last internship I worked was a good 70 hours a week of work without pay and I was "on call" which made working very difficult.
Jobs are out there, but the problem is that the majority of people limit themselves by sticking to one or two fields or types of employment. Not saying that is the case with you or your brother (and I am only saying that because I don't know where either of you have applied), but sometimes you have to apply to jobs that are beneath you or your experience.
And, I am asking this out of general honesty, but were you not aware that these internships began on May 15th?
I seriously doubt that 95% of internships don't pay. My GF had an internship last semester that paid $10 an hour and she is getting one next semester that pays nothing. However, she gets college credit for both of them and will have two less courses to take. So even though only one was paid, she is saving $7,000 by not having to take those two courses.
All of the internships that are available in my field, and those that me and my classmates have applied to, are paid. The going rate is around $350 a week + plus travel expenses and room/board. The downside is that some of them are only for two weeks. Two guys from my program got offered, and accepted, internships in Greece. They are both only for ten days but they pay $450 a week plus their airfare and room/board is paid for as well. One of the guys also got offered a six-week internship in Alaska, but turned it down to go to Greece.
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Originally Posted by charolastra00
Heck, even the Walmarts aren't hiring in my town. And with no car (and certainly not about to buy a car with no job), most places of employment write me off straight away.
What? Most places that you apply to write you off simply because you do not have a car!? I dunno, that sounds suspicious to me especially since you go to school in Boston and Boston has pretty good public transportation.
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Originally Posted by charolastra00
I will be working, taking 6 classes, AND working an internship all of next year. Unfortunately, even though my college is in the Boston area with tons of job opportunities, most internships have taken away their paid positions over the past year. Yes, it is important to get the work experience but I will be doing an entry level job with no pay. There's no other way about it. My job will be solely to pay off medical bills and since I don't go to a school where you really have any choice in your class schedule (many courses I need are only offered once a year or even once every 2 or 3 years), I can't exactly work normal hours. Many others are in that boat.
The 'problem' with internships in Boston is that there are around 80 colleges in the Boston area, that is a lot of schools and a lot of students looking for a limited number of internships. Not to mention all of the students from out of state/country who are applying to internships in the Boston area. That is a lot of competition.
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Originally Posted by charolastra00
I don't know what this specific man in the article did to get where he is. I just know that from my perspective, his story is typical even among the most responsible of people. Medical issues happen and throw you into debt, financial aid doesn't come through, and no one is hiring. Even with degrees like accounting or law degrees and work experience, most of my friends are working in Starbucks because there simply are not entry level jobs.
Sh*t happens. Everyone will eventually have a medical bill that will set them back financially at least once in life, and that has nothing to do with college or being in college. What if you were not in school, had these medical bills to pay, but yet couldn't work because of what ever it is that is ailing you. At least you get a scholarship and have parents and grandparents who are paying your rent and bills while you are school. Not to sound like an a$$, but whaaaaa, you have to get a job to pay of some medical bills. Big whoop-dee-do! At least you will not have a student loan to pay off or rent to contend with on top of that. Why are you complaining?
It doesn't mention it in the article, but I would bet that they guy in the story is one of those people who feel that college is a right. That he was entitled to it, and without making connections, applying for internships, or doing any else pro-active he is probably one of those people who also feel entitled to a job simply because he graduated from college. I just don't feel for this guy.
Quote:
Originally Posted by charolastra00
Next year, I'll graduate and I have indeed been looking for potential jobs since I was a freshman in college. The fact is, just because I happen to know key members of the EPA and the CDC (my ideal jobs) doesn't mean that jobs will suddenly materialize for me. I'd venture to guess the job market for a 2008 grad was much brighter than that for a 2009 or even 2010 grad.
Ok, you know key members of the EPA and CDC. That is a very good thing. But just knowing them don't mean jack. Talk to them. Get to know them on a (semi) personal basis if possible. Send them emails periodically telling them that you are interested in future employment. Ask them for advice on what you can do now to improve your chances of being employed in the future. If they are in the Boston area, pop in every once in awhile just to check things out. Be personable with kissing a$$. Be assertive without being pushy. Let them know that you will be looking for employment with them after graduation. Do any of these and I guaranty that when you go to apply you will have the leg up on many other applicants. Will any of these guaranty you a job? No. But they will increase the likely hood of you landing one over those students who simply just go to school and don't apply themselves towards future employment in any other way. The people who do the things that I listed above (and many other items that I left out) are the ones who not only get the jobs, but get the jobs that they want.
Sorry but I have no sympathy.
Try being 40 something and STILL trying to break into a career. I was told 'many people will be retiring' from my field (20 years ago!!) and it's still not happening. I worked plenty of crappy jobs and low levels to pay off my loans.
Man, what a race to the bottom this country has turned into..... Between the apologists saying "buck up, I had to climb up the snowy hill both ways" crowd to the "well, it is what it is" defeatists, I don't know where we will land.
Look, people need to start paying more attention to the economics of an education. Today, the value of an undergraduate degree is independent of anything else, and solely inversely proportional to the amount of debt you you accrue attaining it. If we are to acknowledge college degrees to be the high school diploma of the 21st century then we must recognize the aforementioned value relationship. This means that a high school diploma obtained for the nominal price of $0 is inherently more valuable than one obtained at an aggregate debt load of 22K. If you don't accept that basic premise, you're drinking the kool-aid.
The purchasing power at entry for the same degree with debt vs no debt is substantial. Not only in a monthly cashflow perspective, but from the perspective of mobility and flexibility in choosing an employer at will. Debt is an anchor, and it devalues the income potential of that piece of paper versus not having debt with the same degree. This is basic econ. The key then becomes, for Gen Z and beyond, not a face-value debate on whether one should or should not attain a college education, but on how to obtain an undergraduate education for $0, which is the real value of a high school diploma in the 21st century, and what we have identified a college degree to be (a high school diploma).
That said, we have US NEWS and World Report and the college extortion racket preaching the exact opposite. They preach that NAME is of inherent value, therefore cost is the price for that name. This relationship is false and to follow it is truly financial suicide.
What needs to happen is either degrees become priced at high school diploma levels, or we as a constituency need to dilute the value of an undergraduate degree FASTER than people are willing to endebt themselves for it. In aerospace engineering material fatigue crack and propagation we call this concept over-yielding. It's counter-intuitive but it works. Basically, a material is cracking at pace X (i.e. our purchasing power in an economy with an influx of college degrees that are overage to the amount of positions required) under present conditions. One wishes to slow this degradation but is unable to affect the load source (i.e. idiots continue to go to college under the mantra that everybody else is doing it and that one just needs to buck up and accept the devalued ROI). The concept of over-yielding then suggests affecting the medium (the college degree itself) in a way as to create a slowing in the crack. By overloading the material in a one time dynamically instantaneous jerk, you damage the material ahead of the crack (you make college degrees cost $0) by altering its yield characteristics (it hardens the material by making it brittle but harder), which does not stop the crack from progressing but it does slow it's rate.
That is what we need to do economically with the education racket. Millions of students will continue to pursue the degree in the belief they have no choice, but now there is no incentive to endebt yourself, you come out with the same degree to the same crappy economy, but now there's no debt to pin you down. You could still work as a barista as a phd holder and it wouldn't financially kill you. As a society you actually come out ahead in aggregate, since people are more willing to pursue options in the abscence of debt. Talk about value adding. This is the difference. Education cronies and university lobbies will never go for this of course. But it's what needs to be done.
In the absence of that, heed the previous advice. A college degree without debt is always more valuable than a college degree with debt, regardless of university name, for the median. Think about it. Would people be kosher with expending 40K for a four-year high school education? Hell no. That's why millions of american households coop up in ticky tacky demographically apartheid suburban subdivision where all they're doing is "purchasing" a school district to attain the very outcome I speak about: getting a high school education for nominal $0. And why is that? Well, because people have long ago accepted that high school diplomas today are worthless from a labor perspective in attaining above median income wages. The challenge is that people are still struggling with the idea of recognizing the same condition out of undergraduate degrees. Once people wake up and realize we're already there, you'll see the same disdain for "coughing up out-of-pocket" an undergraduate education as we presently do for a high school diploma. In a country where secretaries have Bachelors degree, to continue to believe in the value adding of a "financed" degree, beyond that of a nominal "pre-req just to beg for a job", is outright lunacy.
I've never attained a cent of income from my masters degree to date. I didn't pay a cent to get said degree. I'm no worse off than if I didn't have it. If I had paid for it though, I'd be just as screwed than if I had paid for my high school diploma. America, get it through your thick skull already. My kids will probably hate me when they find out they won't be able to attain an out-of-state education on the refusal of his father to de facto go back to college himself via a student loan mortgage saddling on their behald, but I'll be saving their lives by denying them the ability to commit financial suicide. Good luck to all. That or provide me with a pension like the early boomers and I'll gladly cough up a mortgage to get my kids a high school diploma, but the latter ain't happening either now is it? I digress...
The only thing you forgot to mention is that for certain professions such as doctors, lawyers, pharmacist and engineers you need the degree no matter what it's a prerequisite for the license...
Hernan Castillo is treading water, trying to survive under the weight of $5,200 in credit card debt and $30,000 in student loans. He’s making payments on time, but the Orange County, Calif., resident sees little hope for getting out of the warehouse job he holds and landing a job as an accountant, the field in which he earned his degree.
College grad: ‘I wish I’d gone to prison instead’ - The Red Tape Chronicles - MSNBC.com (http://redtape.msnbc.com/2009/05/college-debt-so-crushing-grad-says-i-wish-id-gone-to-prison-instead.html#posts - broken link)
Everyone wants everything to be handed to them these days. This guy would rather go to prison than work hard and find a job in his field. He's just starting out and worried about retirement.
He is very fortunate to have only $35k in debt..many people have a lot more debt after 4 years of college. A college education is necessary in todays world for many reasons. Now, he has to go out and find a job in a very competitive market. Not easy but very possible.
I lived at home and went to cheapo community college for the first two years. I worked part time for a furniture company and covered half my books and tuition each term, while my mother who lived out of state footed the other half of the bill. My dad let me live at home free of charge and even pickup up my cell phone bill. Pretty pathetic arrangement but it worked and caused no debt to accrue.
It got a little messier when I had to transfer to the State University...I ended up with ~$17k in student loan debt because it was simply too expensive to "pay as you go" at most 4 year schools. The 'rents were off the hook for tuition and books once I got to the University, but they still helped me with living expenses. Took me about 3.5 years to pay that off, with most of the damage happening in 2008 when I really hunkered down and saved the $11,000+ needed to pay the loan in full. I kind of regret not having the full 4-year college experience, but not if it was going to be on my dime. The first two years just aren't that critical from an academic standpoint.
I think these kids that rack up huge $30k+ school debts from private universities for silly degrees are certified crazies...
I'm finishing my senior year at a Big 10 School and will be in some severe debt...but I see it as this:
I could have stayed in my hometown where most people have no higher education, are getting let go from their factory jobs, and cook & deal meth on the side.....but I'm better than that. Sure, I'll be paying back my loans for a long, long time but atleast I'm in a career field that I absolutly love.
Because my program is so intense, there is absolutly no room for a job. It's required that I take 19 credits a semester and also work in the field (without pay) to gain experience...I'm also required to do extra volunteer hours within the community.
I agree, it's sad that I pay $5,000/semester in tuition...plus rent, utilities,books, supplies, groceries, ect. but I feel that my only two options are to go home a be a dead beat like everyone else, OR go into severe debt to make something of myself.....
the choice was quite easy
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