Cleveland Development Discussions (Columbus, Lakewood, Brook Park: retire, inexpensive, seniors)

[j_ws]

I wonder if they're accounting for the influx of people for anamolous events like the RNC, the Cav's parade, etc.

[bjimmy24]

Greater Cleveland RTA ridership dips to record low; annual ridership, 1976-2016: Statistical Snapshot | cleveland.com

Any thoughts?

[WRnative]

Originally Posted by bjimmy24

Greater Cleveland RTA ridership dips to record low; annual ridership, 1976-2016: Statistical Snapshot | cleveland.com

Any thoughts?

Low gasoline prices probably is one factor.

Historical Gas Price Charts - Ohio Gas Prices

Another factor is that RTA has cut service due to a lack of funding, forcing persons to find alternatives on several routes. How much has RTA reduced its road mile seating capacity? RTA also has raised fares.

One other possibility is that the Republican National Convention suppressed downtown activity for a week, or so.

An important statistic that I've never seen released is load factor -- what percentage of available seats are utilized.

[Kamms]

Originally Posted by WRnative

Low gasoline prices probably is one factor.

Historical Gas Price Charts - Ohio Gas Prices

Another factor is that RTA has cut service due to a lack of funding, forcing persons to find alternatives on several routes. How much has RTA reduced its road mile seating capacity? RTA also has raised fares.

One other possibility is that the Republican National Convention suppressed downtown activity for a week, or so.

An important statistic that I've never seen released is load factor -- what percentage of available seats are utilized.

This can be rationalized all anyone wants but the reality is that as Cleveland's population and employment cratered, especially downtown, the RTA has lost close to 90 million annual riders. RTA never lived up to its expectations.

Last year a friend and his wife decided to use the Red Line for an Indians game. Line out of the station for the 1 or 2 ticket kiosks; if you're not used to using those kiosks, it can take time. Then, after the game, the Red Line was closed for some b.s. reason and it was a shuttle bus back to the west side. First time in a long time they used the Rapid; won't be going again. How is the RTA expecting people to use the trains this Indians season?

The train lines are poorly routed; the light-rail is good and was designed for Shaker residents, the Water Front Line needed to loop through the CBD, even extend to the west side, esp along Detroit. But those are dreams.

Now CLE is stuck with dwindling transit ridership and its Public Square park will be on life support, like the last version, in the near term. Far from being the real reason for bus delays and missed transfers, forcing Public Square to be ruined, this is the reason: (notice all the passengers take off complaining about missing their transfers....


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0sfwjQDlGmQ

[bjimmy24]

Just seems weird that people are boasting most visitors ever to Cleveland, rnc, great sports seasons, mild winter last year, lots of factors like that, but record low transit. Are people walking and biking rising? And enough to have that radical effect? Or are people continuing to move to the suburbs/leave altogether.

As I've said before, I actually think the rta works pretty well. But also at least in terms of the trains- not many stations are usefully placed. The green line down extremely low density mansions on Shaker Boulevard seems like a waste of money. At least the blue line goes through density. The red line to the east goes through severely declining neighborhoods except little italy and case. But honestly, I feel most people that live in those areas don't use the red line much becsuse they probably live and work there.

[Kamms]

Originally Posted by bjimmy24

Just seems weird that people are boasting most visitors ever to Cleveland, rnc, great sports seasons, mild winter last year, lots of factors like that, but record low transit. Are people walking and biking rising? And enough to have that radical effect? Or are people continuing to move to the suburbs/leave altogether.

As I've said before, I actually think the rta works pretty well. But also at least in terms of the trains- not many stations are usefully placed. The green line down extremely low density mansions on Shaker Boulevard seems like a waste of money. At least the blue line goes through density. The red line to the east goes through severely declining neighborhoods except little italy and case. But honestly, I feel most people that live in those areas don't use the red line much becsuse they probably live and work there.

the visitors and tourists help, at least those using the RTA. Daily, regular commuters carry a transit system. The TOD in Little Italy most likely will add infrequent riders (airport, sports, special events). I would not want to live that close to any RTA station.

People don't commute downtown like they used to. As for downtown, residents, again, "sometime riders", if at all.

[WRnative]

All of these questions about RTA transit usage are important ones, but, as in many of the discussions in this forum, we're relying on guesses and anecdotal information.

The RTA should be answering these questions with detailed, analytic annual reports. If these reports don't exist, a shake-up is needed. If they exist and aren't made public, shame on local media and political leaders.

The cleveland.com article about annual RTA ridership statistics was extremely superficial at best.

There may be some good information here, if someone wants to noodle through it, but it appears that the 2016 annual report hasn't yet been released.

2015 Annual Report | Greater Cleveland Regional Transit Authority

[j_ws]

I need to look into all of the data further, but do they give ridership numbers for specific rail and bus lines?

I imagine the Green and Blue lines drag down numbers for the system (but I've only really used them a small number of times, so I can't speak to their overall ridership). The elimination of bus routes undoubtedly had a negative impact, as I have heard about a lot of people that had their primary routes eliminated and have not easily transitioned to alternate ones.

I wonder if there will be a spike as the near west side populations help ridership increase. Off of the top of my head, transit corridors are getting the following:
- EcoVillage infill and the Aspen Place coming on line.
- The new Veysey high rise in Hingetown.
- The large W25/Detroit project and refurbishment of the existing building across the street
- The W 25th St Lofts
- Edge32 on Detroit
- The Edison over in D-S
- The current new construction in Battery Park as well as the final phase apartment building.

I think the Edison might have less of an impact than it could since it isn't really situated that well for transit. This topic has been a big point of contention among a lot of residents of the immediate area.

[andrew61]

I've been back in the Cleveland area for a year and a half now, and I only use public transit very occasionally. I'm retired, so I don't have to use it to commute to work, but I'm finding that I seldom go anywhere nowadays that I can't walk to -- meaning only Lakewood and a few nearby parts of Cleveland -- because getting places on the RTA is just too much of a hassle.

Last Saturday my friend treated me to a belated birthday lunch out in Crocker Park. On a weekend, this meant catching the #26 bus in Lakewood and then transferring to the #49 at the Westgate Transit Center. Well, our #26 was late, which meant we just missed our connection, and the next #49 wasn't due for nearly an hour, so we ended up hanging out at McDonald's for a while. Oy!

I met my friend sometime around 11:30, and we finally sat down to lunch just before 2:00. People who have cars are just not going to put up with this.

The state of Ohio, sadly, doesn't fund public transit enough, which is the reason RTA has to keep raising fares and cutting service. Although this article in this week's Lakewood Observer is giving me a glimmer of hope:

Senator Skindell Introduces Transportation Funding Bill - The Lakewood Observer

[Kamms]

Originally Posted by andrew61

I've been back in the Cleveland area for a year and a half now, and I only use public transit very occasionally. I'm retired, so I don't have to use it to commute to work, but I'm finding that I seldom go anywhere nowadays that I can't walk to -- meaning only Lakewood and a few nearby parts of Cleveland -- because getting places on the RTA is just too much of a hassle.

Last Saturday my friend treated me to a belated birthday lunch out in Crocker Park. On a weekend, this meant catching the #26 bus in Lakewood and then transferring to the #49 at the Westgate Transit Center. Well, our #26 was late, which meant we just missed our connection, and the next #49 wasn't due for nearly an hour, so we ended up hanging out at McDonald's for a while. Oy!

I met my friend sometime around 11:30, and we finally sat down to lunch just before 2:00. People who have cars are just not going to put up with this.

The state of Ohio, sadly, doesn't fund public transit enough, which is the reason RTA has to keep raising fares and cutting service. Although this article in this week's Lakewood Observer is giving me a glimmer of hope:

Senator Skindell Introduces Transportation Funding Bill - The Lakewood Observer

Yep, if you have a car, why would you bother to use RTA to go to Crocker Park or an event downtown? It's easy to drive in CLE and parking is cheap and traffic is a non-issue.