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-Vibe/Energy: Hard to say, they are so different. Richmond has a grittier vibe, and Raleigh is more college-y and professional. If you want an urban place then Richmond is the winner. If you want a place that feels like it is heading in the right direction then Raleigh.
-Retail Mix/Amenities: Both have all I need. Maybe slight edge to Richmond.
-Nightlife/Entertainment: Richmond is a much more urban place and has more going on IMO.
-Education : Raleigh, esp if you consider the entire Triangle.
-Economic Outlook: Raleigh has been booming for a while. Richmond is doing fine but does not feel economically dynamic.
-Cultural Attractions: I think Richmond's offerings are a little better. Fantastic art museum, lots of theaters and historical attractions. Raleigh also has good museums, but I was surprised at how nice Richmond's are.
-QOL Preference: Raleigh has lower crime and just seems economically healthier. I would prefer it if it were more urban, and it is not the most exciting place to visit but seems like a really nice place to live.
I posed these two cities as rivals in the city vs city rivalry thread and I'm wondering how everyone feels about that.
They're not rivals at all. It's surprising because both cities are less than three hours apart, but I don't think people in Raleigh think of Richmond that often and vice versa. We know Richmond is there and it isn't far, and I'm sure most people in Raleigh have been, but it's like that one neighbor we just don't really care about. When people around Raleigh visit that area, it's usually for Kings Dominion or the Williamsburg area not terribly far down the road. You don't really hear many people actually visiting the city of Richmond. I'm sure tons of people have only driven through heading to DC. Don't get me wrong, I'm sure it's the same for people in Richmond. There's not much down here in NC that they don't have up there. If anything, they have a much stronger chance of heading north to DC for whatever reason instead of heading south to Raleigh/Durham.
Charlotte is definitely Raleigh's rival. Even Greensboro has a better chance over Richmond. For an out of state rival, Northern VA would be the best pick for the Research Triangle. I feel like we're heading in that kind of direction, but people in Northern VA still believe we're in a league below them.
They're not rivals at all. It's surprising because both cities are less than three hours apart, but I don't think people in Raleigh think of Richmond that often and vice versa. We know Richmond is there and it isn't far, and I'm sure most people in Raleigh have been, but it's like that one neighbor we just don't really care about. When people around Raleigh visit that area, it's usually for Kings Dominion or the Williamsburg area not terribly far down the road. You don't really hear many people actually visiting the city of Richmond. I'm sure tons of people have only driven through heading to DC. Don't get me wrong, I'm sure it's the same for people in Richmond. There's not much down here in NC that they don't have up there. If anything, they have a much stronger chance of heading north to DC for whatever reason instead of heading south to Raleigh/Durham.
Charlotte is definitely Raleigh's rival. Even Greensboro has a better chance over Richmond. For an out of state rival, Northern VA would be the best pick for the Research Triangle. I feel like we're heading in that kind of direction, but people in Northern VA still believe we're in a league below them.
Although Richmond has been a larger city longer, Raleigh has surpassed it in population and future prospects. I find the notion that Northern VA believing we're a league below them admirable, but ultimately not rooted in reality.
Although Richmond has been a larger city longer, Raleigh has surpassed it in population and future prospects. I find the notion that Northern VA believing we're a league below them admirable, but ultimately not rooted in reality.
Of course it is. NoVA has 2.9 million persons to the Triangle's 2.1 million. NoVA's GDP by itself, without the rest of the DC metro area, is $227.5 billion compared to the Triangle's $115 billion (source). NoVA has nine F500 headquarters and 180 million square feet of office space, while the Triangle only has two F500 companies and 65 million square feet of office space. NoVA has two major airports, Reagan and Dulles, both of which are significantly busier than RDU. NoVA has several miles of HRT and commuter rail while the Triangle has neither. NoVA has more retail, and more higher-end retail in particular, than the Triangle. The only thing the Triangle wins outright over NoVA is higher ed, but otherwise all the indicators are pretty clear that the Triangle is not in NoVA's league.
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Originally Posted by epicene101
This poll also isn't rooted in reality it seems, lol.
How can you say that people's personal preferences aren't reality? Raleigh isn't everybody's cup of tea you know.
Of course it is. NoVA has 2.9 million persons to the Triangle's 2.1 million. NoVA's GDP by itself, without the rest of the DC metro area, is $227.5 billion compared to the Triangle's $115 billion (source). NoVA has nine F500 headquarters and 180 million square feet of office space, while the Triangle only has two F500 companies and 65 million square feet of office space. NoVA has two major airports, Reagan and Dulles, both of which are significantly busier than RDU. NoVA has several miles of HRT and commuter rail while the Triangle has neither. NoVA has more retail, and more higher-end retail in particular, than the Triangle. The only thing the Triangle wins outright over NoVA is higher ed, but otherwise all the indicators are pretty clear that the Triangle is not in NoVA's league.
How can you say that people's personal preferences aren't reality? Raleigh isn't everybody's cup of tea you know.
I was talking about NoVA compared to NC as a whole ( at least that's what I was implying). Also with all that said, I still don't put them a league ahead. Ahead yes, but not a league. In my opinion Atlanta is what I consider a league ahead (if we're comparing the "New South") since their metro population clearly dwarfs any metro area in NC.
Personal Preferences aside, Richmond as a single city is half the size of Raleigh as a single city, and is growing slower as of right now. That's the reality. All this talk about how urban Richmond is in comparison to Raleigh doesn't seem to be helping Richmond's population in comparison to Raleigh's. Richmond will always win the polls on this site though, and it's a beautiful historical city.😉
I was talking about NoVA compared to NC as a whole ( at least that's what I was implying). Also with all that said, I still don't put them a league ahead. Ahead yes, but not a league. In my opinion Atlanta is what I consider a league ahead (if we're comparing the "New South") since their metro population clearly dwarfs any metro area in NC.
Nobody's comparing a part of one state (NoVA) with a whole state (NC) as that's not apples-to-apples. NC and VA overall are peer states but yeah, NoVA would be a league ahead of the Triangle, especially since in reality you can't separate it from the DC metro area.
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Personal Preferences aside, Richmond as a single city is half the size of Raleigh as a single city, and is growing slower as of right now. That's the reality. All this talk about how urban Richmond is in comparison to Raleigh doesn't seem to be helping Richmond's population in comparison to Raleigh's. Richmond will always win the polls on this site though, and it's a beautiful historical city.😉
Keep in mind that Richmond is less than half the size of Raleigh land-wise. Richmond being more urban is just a fact and has little to no bearing on population growth; it's older and matured/boomed much earlier than Raleigh, which is pretty much the same for many other older urban centers including NYC, Philly, Boston, Baltimore, etc. that don't post high growth figures today. That said, it still posts a pretty respectable, healthy, and sustainable metropolitan growth rate. Had it experienced a post-war growth spurt like Raleigh, many of its historic buildings would have probably been demolished in the name of "progress" so in retrospect it's great that it missed that boat.
Nobody's comparing a part of one state (NoVA) with a whole state (NC) as that's not apples-to-apples. NC and VA overall are peer states but yeah, NoVA would be a league ahead of the Triangle, especially since in reality you can't separate it from the DC metro area.
Keep in mind that Richmond is less than half the size of Raleigh land-wise. Richmond being more urban is just a fact and has little to no bearing on population growth; it's older and matured/boomed much earlier than Raleigh, which is pretty much the same for many other older urban centers including NYC, Philly, Boston, Baltimore, etc. that don't post high growth figures today. That said, it still posts a pretty respectable, healthy, and sustainable metropolitan growth rate. Had it experienced a post-war growth spurt like Raleigh, many of its historic buildings would have probably been demolished in the name of "progress" so in retrospect it's great that it missed that boat.
Understandable, but when comparing the two I'm just looking at the numbers, and they favor Raleigh (currently). I have no problem with Richmond, but I'm here to offer balance when it comes to Raleigh, because it gets a little one-sided on this site at times.
Understandable, but when comparing the two I'm just looking at the numbers, and they favor Raleigh (currently). I have no problem with Richmond, but I'm here to offer balance when it comes to Raleigh, because it gets a little one-sided on this site at times.
@epicene, but in any realistic measure besides Raleigh's New South growth, it is not "ahead" of Richmond on a pound-for-pound scale....
Clearly, Richmond has the larger, livelier downtown, and certainly doesn't 'feel' smaller than Raleigh. Charlotte clearly feels like a larger city---Raleigh, not so much. All of this hyper growth in Raleigh the last 20 years, still hasn't built a larger core, bore a more creative class, or a more sophisticated personality, than Richmond.....note, not that Raleigh lacks any of the aforementioned characteristics. Only that this growth surge you champion has yet to build Raleigh as a truly greater city....
Livability is subjective, but Richmond clearly offers more diversity in retail, dining, and business. Richmond probably loses in higher ed, but not by much, as UR and VCU hold up well against NC State. City-to-city, the higher ed is really a toss up, though admittedly, higher ed in the greater Triangle is the sure winner...
Bottom line is many misinformed people seem to believe Richmond is stagnant and has just stopped growing. Point of fact, it's not going to attract the same people a city like Raleigh does because while that whole "New South" thing is appealing to some, Richmond is a city's city---urban, walkable, educated, economically diverse, geographically appealing, visibly active, and offers an array of architecture and districts that have no parallel to anything in Raleigh (Mayo Island, Church Hill, The Fan, Carytown, I can name probably a dozen more neighborhoods)--hell, Manchester is a city within the city and has no equal counterpart within Raleigh. These areas offer retail, dining, and quality of life in some mixture that Raleigh doesn't even have...
Richmond is growing just fine. The city is back over 220,000 and feels larger than that, ESPECIALLY if Raleigh is the comparison base. The Triangle as a whole is stronger than Greater Richmond, no argument there....
But if we were trying to sell someone on living within the city limits of either city, Richmond has a good bit more strengths than Raleigh. People on here love hating on Richmond and calling it small, and yet Richmond is so much more evocative and aesthetically appealing than several "larger" cities on the East Coast. That certainly includes Raleigh....
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