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Being a Texan and being a southerner aren't mutually exclusive in some parts of Texas. Obviously it is in el Paso. But not in Houston.
Exactly, and I certainly don't remember hearing any Mississippian, Alabaman, Georgian, or Carolinian denounce their statehood just to claim southernness.
What you speak of is arguable for a small portion of Texas and that's about it. The larger picture is that Texas is unique and is its own entity having been part of Mexico and well more than half the state not culturally tied to south in any way. Northern Florida is the same as southern Alabama and Georgia.
I never said east Texas wasn't southern just that Florida is more so
What you speak of is arguable for a small portion of Texas and that's about it. The larger picture is that Texas is unique and is its own entity having been part of Mexico and well more than half the state not culturally tied to south in any way.
That's definitely arguable, especially since the Bible Belt itself extends well into West Texas.
Louisiana was once La Louisiane. They have parishes instead of counties, and about half of their state does its own unique thing...
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Northern Florida is the same as southern Alabama and Georgia.
East Texas is the same as the western half of Louisiana....
So, I'm going to guess that you have no intention of expanding on your points that I questioned previously? Here's the question again, in case you missed it:
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What universally southern qualities am I going to find in North Florida that I will not find in East Texas?
It's going to be more or less southern across different parts of both states. Here's an easy way to tell the difference. In which areas are you more likely to find people who know a lot about and tend to admire Robert E. Lee and which areas are more eager to make excuses for or explain away the role of the confederate states in the civil war. That will give you a fairly good idea of whether or not you're in "The South."
As stated before, by having visible Southern influence all THROUGHOUT the state, Florida is the more southern state than Texas. Basically, about half of Texas is southern with a strong western twist; the other half has ZERO southern influence at all. Only a tiny sliver of the state, east of the Trinity River, can be considered the Deep South culturally.
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Originally Posted by Nairobi
Louisiana is unique as they come, yet their southernness is rarely questioned, despite the fact your average New Orleanian is less typically southern than your average Texan; right down to the accent.
Dallas, Texas does not have a rodeo. Louisiana, Mississippi, Maryland, and even New Jersey all have popular rodeos, so there's a hole in your logic. Houston Rodeo is nothing more than a carnival and concert for most in attendance. Furthermore, the average Houstonian has probably never even ridden a horse in their life, meaning that the cowboy/ranching lifestyle has little to no effect on our everyday culture. So, as usual, your argument holds no weight.
Rodeo, a sport with Southwestern origin, is a key feature in the Livestock and Rodeo show that is a component of Houston's cultural identity... meaning that Houston exhibits the western influences that allow it to be placed in the Western South, along with fellow cities like Austin, and Dallas, both of which have western influences from varying sources. The cowboy/western culture has no effect on the everyday culture not because it was never there, but more because Houston has grown into a huge, high-tech, international city, reducing the necessity of such traditional actions. But throughout the outskirts of the metro, you can see all sorts of western influences, such as ranches that have yielded beef for quite some times. The most famous of these is the George Ranch.
I agree with you that there is a sort of Southern influence that can be seen in Houston; the Charleston-style homes of the Heights, the historic cotton plantations, the architecture, etc. But what I am saying is that in addition to the Southern influence, there also is the Western influence (similar to Austin and Dallas), and the Tex-Mex influence (similar to San Antonio, Corpus and Brownsville).
Exactly, and I certainly don't remember hearing any Mississippian, Alabaman, Georgian, or Carolinian denounce their statehood just to claim southernness.
You also won't here any Mississippian, Alabamian, Georgian, or Carolinian crowing about their statehood like you do in Texas.
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When it comes down to it, I think this is more about some Texans intentionally wanting to distance themselves from the South. Sorry, but it's not as simple as proclaiming "we're not the South". The culture and mannerisms speak for themselves.
And don't get me started (again) on the many misconceptions a lot of Texans have about the rest of the South. Several of them probably think of Atlanta as this city where they have sweet tea on tap, cotton grows in people's yards, Confederate flags don every porch, and Spanish moss drapes every tree.
This is EXACTLY my point.
To me this mentality seperates Texans from others in the deep south. You want to gloss the differences over saying they shouldn't count. Fine, but they provide a solid distinction between Texans and other southerners.
Finally, east Texas is influenced more by the cowboy culture that is west of it than north Florida is by anything that surrounds it.
Last edited by eddie gein; 03-22-2014 at 06:21 PM..
=eddie gein;33995099]You also won't here any Mississippian, Alabamian, Georgian, or Carolinian crowing about their statehood like you do in Texas.
Ah, contraire, Eddie...yes, you will...they just "advertise/announce it in a less overt way than we Texans do.
I mean, considering it fairly, I readily grant and agree -- and always have for that matter -- that each and every one of those states -- to varying and relative degrees -- place much more of an emphasis on being "Southern" than of "separate" identity. And hey, that is fine and dandy and I don't blame them at all.
But at the same time? It cannot be said that any of them do not also present themselves as something special to the South at large, in terms of history/culture/features/etc.
BUT...to take that simple ball and run with it -- not saying you necessarily, but some do -- as to such translating into that most Texans feel no identification with the South at all, is just not true...and extensive surveys/studies bear this out.
On a related tangent, the general reasons for all the above are more lengthy than can be stated on one post, but it boils down to that Texas was relatively physically unaffected by the War and, unlike the other states to the east, actually came out -- in the long run -- via the cattle boom -- somewhat prosperous (the vindictiveness and hardships of Reconstruction not withstanding).
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This is EXACTLY my point.
To me this mentality seperates Texans from others in the deep south. You want to gloss the differences over saying they shouldn't count. Fine, but they provide a solid distinction between Texans and other southerners.
Finally, east Texas is influenced more by the cowboy culture that is west of it than north Florida is by anything that surrounds it.
No, it isn't. "Cowboys" have roots in Florida too...and in South Carolina too...and the latter is pretty much the origin of the famed Texas Cowboy.
But to backtrack? What is the rationale for making the cowboy a component of Texas sans any connection with their Southern roots? The average Texas cowboy (and certainly the original large ranch owners), where settlers from the southeastern states and/or former Confederate soldiers or sons of the same. This breed was overwhelmingly of "southern stock" (no pun intended! LOL), not spawned from the Mexican "vaquero".
You can make the same "Mexican Texas" argument for Florida. Florida for the longest, was territory of Spain. Florida joined the union the same year Texas did. Even then(like Texas) most of Florida wasn't populated by many people, let alone Southerners. There weren't any major civil war battles, South of Jacksonville. There were no incorporated cities in south Florida before, during, or even immediately after the civil war. There was no "there" there, let alone any southern society.
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