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First of all, you are comparing a central city to a suburb of Phoenix.
I didn't make the comparison, it was the poster to which I replied. I can't speak for him, but in my opinion, much of Charlotte does not look like a central city, but instead looks like a suburb of Phoenix (with different plants). It's a reasonable comparison in my opinion, even though the original city part of Charlotte is quite different from anywhere in Scottsdale.
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Secondly, why is Charlotte (rated way down at #20) even being brought up?
You'll have to ask the person who brought it up. That wasn't me.
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Lastly, have you any clue that next year's Democratic National Convention (the same National Convention Boston hosted in 2004) will be held in downtown Charlotte?
Yes, of course I do, and it's a fairly irrelevant point.
No, Charlotte is NOT Boston, but it is by NO MEANS a Scottsdale or a Raleigh either!!! Please, stop painting all Sunbelt cities with the same brush, because it doesn't work that way at all any more.
When have I done this? I'll admit, I criticized Charlotte recently in another thread, perhaps you saw that. But as a general rule, I am not anti-sun belt. I am anti-sprawl, pro-urban. And if you did read that other post about Charlotte, did you notice the part where I said the downtown was nice?
Scottsdale has it's retail because it is located in Metro Phoenix (a metro that is more than twice metro Charlotte's size). So let's not split hairs here. Charlotte is a city, Scottsdale is a suburb of a large city. There is a difference and you know it.
Scottsdale has existed since the 1800's. A city now of 217,385 nonetheless. With its resorts (tourism), nightlife, and retail, and third largest employment center in the Phoenix metro (after midtown and downtown Phoenix) with companies like APL, Dial, Go Daddy, Kahala, Kona Grill, P.F. Changs, Taser (among others), Scottsdale can support itself.
So you're saying that Scottsdale and Raleigh could land a DNC convention without any of the urban efforts that Charlotte has put forth in recent years? Maybe, just maybe the President is interested in winning NC again and wants to show off a post-automobile American city that is trying to redefine itself in a more urban fashion?
They certainly could, if Arizona was a larger or more viable political prize in the case of Scottsdale, or if Raleigh had a larger convention venue. Neither of these things in and of themselves require an urban environment.
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The urban effort is obviously at its strongest downtown. However, here recently (within the last 10 years) quite a few apartments, townhouses, and condos (typically only seen downtown) are now being developed outside of downtown too. It is not at the level of more older cities yet, but the effort is underway. This is the reason why I feel that certain comments about Charlotte are a bit unfair when the city is changing itself very quickly (a change that even a US president noticed during his visits).
I agree. As I've already said twice, the downtown area is nice. I'm not sure how many ways I can say that before you get the point that I'm talking about the other 95%, which is indistinguishable from a place like Scottsdale.
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This is what Michelle Obama meant when she called Charlotte "diverse and progressive". They were very impressed and quite surprised by what level this city had reached in such a short time. In all honesty, perception of Charlotte does not fit what Charlotte has become (but to a Boston guy, we probably are a Scottsdale or a Raleigh; all the same). I disagree, but I get your point of view.
I'm glad the First Lady likes Charlotte. I like Charlotte, too, and am hopeful that it will become more like a big city and less like a small city surrounded by a huge suburb.
As I said, Charlotte isn't there yet. But the people in Charlotte WANT the more city/urban stuff/amenities and Charlotte has a lot of business interests money to possibly pull it off. There are lots of transplanted urbanites in Charlotte, plenty from the Northeast and Midwest have moved there over the last decade. This is way different than the general attitude amongst the populous and politicians of the Triangle area. That is the key difference to me. I don't think people in Phoenix want the city stuff either.
I'm not from either nor NC obviously but that is the impression I got visiting, talking to people, etc.
As I said, Charlotte isn't there yet. But the people in Charlotte WANT the more city/urban stuff/amenities and Charlotte has a lot of business interests money to possibly pull it off. There are lots of transplanted urbanites in Charlotte, plenty from the Northeast and Midwest have moved there over the last decade. This is way different than the general attitude amongst the populous and politicians of the Triangle area. That is the key difference to me. I don't think people in Phoenix want the city stuff either.
I'm not from either nor NC obviously but that is the impression I got visiting, talking to people, etc.
Guess what? There are a lot of transplanted urbanites in Phoenix as well, perhaps more.
Guess what? There are a lot of transplanted urbanites in Phoenix as well, perhaps more.
But has Phoenix put the initiatives up like that? Aren't there many more retirees among your population demographics? Charlotte isn't that type of place. Charlotte pulls off a better or just as good downtown with less than 1/2 of the people in the Metro as Phoenix. How is it that Charlotte had light rail up and running earlier than Phoenix?
Fair enough. So show me a past DNC or RNC convention held in a location that is equally as suburban as Scottsdale and Raleigh. You say it can happen in theory (which I agree), now show me where this theory actually occurred in real life.
I'm not sure there is an example. Until about 30 years ago, it couldn't have been in such a place, because people were still mostly traveling by rail. A national political convention had to take place in a location with a high density of rail lines to bring in delegates. Since then, the requirement has been that it be a viable location for a media circus, meaning much larger venues than the actual conventioneers might require. The last convention that wasn't in a sports arena was the '84 DNC in San Francisco's Muscone Center. It was entirely inappropriate to the age of TV spectaculars because the roof was too low. The transportation issue doesn't much matter anymore, but the facility issue does.
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I hope it doesn't. I want urban elements (and the city provides that), yet I also want the city to retain its small town feel. If we ever became "one of the big boys", we'd be so expensive that we would start to decline in population like "one of the big boys".
There are ways to achieve a larger urban core without necessarily over developing the outlying regions. But it's interesting to read your perspective on this. As an outsider who frequently visits, I find myself so turned off by the exurban style sprawl, that I just want the core to get bigger, so that it becomes easier to avoid the areas I don't like. But at the same time, I generally think to myself that I'd want to live downtown if I for some reason ended up down there. And indeed, the downtown area would become very expensive if there was enough pressure for that area to grow. Tough dilemma, but not a bad one to be in.
But has Phoenix put the initiatives up like that? Aren't there many more retirees among your population demographics? Charlotte isn't that type of place. Charlotte pulls off a better or just as good downtown with less than 1/2 of the people in the Metro as Phoenix.
Does this remind you of Phoenix?
Check the average age of citizens of Phoenix and its metro and compare to others, then get back to me. It surprises me what little people know about Phoenix.
Phoenix gets "urbanites" from LA. Charlotte gets urbanites from NYC.
To be fair, Phoenix does have 20 miles of light rail now (double the distance of Charlotte's system). However, Charlotte's downtown is built in a more urban fashion than downtown Phoenix.
Phoenix gets urbanites from all over including the Midwest and Northeast, but thanks for the generalization.
Phoenix gets urbanites from all over including the Midwest and Northeast, but thanks for the generalization.
Phoenix has a huge Canadian expat community.
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