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These scriptures describe God as "consuming fire" HIMSELF, HE is the spiritual fire that we have no concept of in this life.
Deuteronomy 9:3
Understand therefore this day, that the LORD thy God is he which goeth over before thee; as a consumingfire he shall destroy them, and he shall bring them down before thy face: so shalt thou drive them out, and destroy them quickly, as the LORD hath said unto thee.
The below scripture shows how our faith is tried with fire, which we know not to be literal fire but spiritual fire because we're not all running around with our bodies on fire. Fire is a metaphor for something spiritual that man had no idea how to describe. In the Bible, the word fire is used to describe something spiritual to do with God, that which they did not understand but appeared as "fire". It's how they understood it to look, not what it actually was.
1 Peter 1:7
That the trial of your faith, being much more precious than of gold that perisheth, though it be tried with fire, might be found unto praise and honour and glory at the appearing of Jesus Christ:
Now in the below scriptures we see that God is the "refiner" and we are as gold or silver that needs "refining". When gold is tried by fire, it is then purified. That's how is it with God's consuming fire. He will try us with His spiritual fire and we will be refined and purified.
Zechariah 13:9
And I will bring the third part through the fire, and will refine them as silver is refined, and will try them as gold is tried: they shall call on my name, and I will hear them: I will say, It is my people: and they shall say, The LORD is my God.
Malachi 3:3 And he shall sit as a refiner and purifier of silver: and he shall purify the sons of Levi, and purge them as gold and silver, that they may offer unto the LORD an offering in righteousness.
Clearly you are seeing things certain way just because you want to see them a certain way. None of the above verses support what you said earlier. Read the whole chapter of Peter for example and you will learn who he is talking about. He is talking about the faithful.: "who through faith are shielded by God's power until the coming of the salvation that is ready to be revealed in the last time."
These scriptures describe God as "consuming fire" HIMSELF, HE is the spiritual fire that we have no concept of in this life.
Deuteronomy 9:3
Understand therefore this day, that the LORD thy God is he which goeth over before thee; as a consumingfire he shall destroy them, and he shall bring them down before thy face: so shalt thou drive them out, and destroy them quickly, as the LORD hath said unto thee.
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Not the best scripture choice to support your POV.
Yes, the good and bad are invited. The choise is simple: Take it or leave it.
No the good and bad weren't invited. They never received an invitation. They were gathered from the streets, the good and bad uninvited people were gathered from the common streets. The invited ones said no thanks and killed the servant. Now who was the 1 guy dressed in the wrong clothes who was thrown in the darkness, weeping and gnashing?
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They remained outside where there was weeping and gnashing of teeth.
AGAIN.. only the 1 not clothed* was thrown into the darkness, outside...weeping and gnashing and BOUND.
Here is a hint: But the Lord said to Ananias, “Go! This man is my chosen instrument to carry my name before the Gentiles and their kings and before the people of Israel. I will show him how much he must suffer for my name.”
He was wearing the wrong clothes (killing God's chosen) yet was bound (blinded) and thrown into the darkness (blinded) weeping and gnashing his teeth (For three days he was blind, and did not eat or drink anything.) so that he could become PAUL, the Lords servant to the GENTILES (those from the streets)... "I will show him how much he must suffer for my name."
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"Of course you do, because you think everyone is automatically saved, and no one is left outside or thrown otside. Wanton disregrard of scripture like this is a clear sign of a false teaching.
I beg to differ... as I showed here, the parable has to do with Paul's conversion and the Sanhedrin's demise than your supposed invitation theory. It is helpful to remember that these things pertained to the age in which they were written.
Wanton disregard? Hardly. If you truly want to understand the parables you really have to consider the times in which they were written.
* Yeah... I mean wearing the wrong clothes.. not naked. LOL I had to laugh.
Rom 10:9
that if you confess with your mouth the Lord Jesus and believe in your heart that God has raised Him from the dead, you will be saved.
1Cr 12:3
Therefore I make known to you that no one speaking by the Spirit of God calls Jesus accursed, and no one can say that Jesus is Lord except by the Holy Spirit.
Phl 2:9-11
For this reason also, God highly exalted Him, and bestowed on Him the name which is above every name, so that at the name of Jesus EVERY KNEE WILL BOW, of those who are in heaven and on earth and under the earth,
and that every tongue will confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.
The scriptures plainly teach that if one confesses Christ as lord, they will be saved ... And no one can ever say Christ is lord unless it is by the holy spirit. Also the scriptures also teach that in the end everyone will confess Christ as lord, therefore in the end everyone will be saved.
Nowhere in the scriptures does it teach that one must confess Christ is lord before they die in order to be saved.
Since the OP wanted to ask those who believe in UR questions maybe the answers could be directed at him rather than those who just want to oppose UR and are not interested in actually thinking about what we are saying
I am learning a lot about Universalism on this board. Thanks! Good to gain knowledge.
Anyway my question is: if everyone will be eventually be saved then why accept Jesus as savior? It would seem that the Uni view negates the need for Christ.
Well, if you take God saving all mankind to it's logical conclusion you really don't need to believe Christ died for your sins in this life. But the universalist view is far from negating the need for Christ. Without Christ dying for all mankind and ransoming all mankind God would not and could not save all mankind. Jesus is the way, the truth and the life. There is no other name whereby we MUST be saved.
The only people who believe in Christ are the ones God has chosen to be believing long before they were born. They are the ones who are to get to live through the duration of the next two ages to come. They are part of God's business to head up all in the heavens and all on the earth in the future (Eph.1:9,10).
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If I just live a good and moral life and give lip service to God I'm good to go. That is what I am hearing. Is that more or less what is being said by the Uni folk?
No, you will not be getting age-during life to come by just being good. You will miss out on the next two ages. You will have to wait for those very long ages to end before God brings you into salvation.
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This seems to be contrary to what I read in the Bible.
I am learning a lot about Universalism on this board. Thanks! Good to gain knowledge.
Anyway my question is: if everyone will be eventually be saved then why accept Jesus as savior? It would seem that the Uni view negates the need for Christ.
If I just live a good and moral life and give lip service to God I'm good to go. That is what I am hearing. Is that more or less what is being said by the Uni folk?
This seems to be contrary to what I read in the Bible.
What we are told in scripture salvation is NOT of ourselves and not of our good works - it is a gift of God.
Creation was subjected to futility not of its own will but of the will of God in hope
Jesus came to reconcile the world to God through his death and resurrection --- being put to death in the flesh and raised in the Spirit.
Being a good person saves no one but also having dead faith does not save one either.
How I see it is that believers submit to judgment now and have passed from death to life
Not the best scripture choice to support your POV.
Yes it fits perfectly... How else do you get from the OLD man to the NEW unless you are destroyed (as Saul was destroyed to Paul).
1 Peter 1:7 These have come so that your faith--of greater worth than gold, which perishes even though refined by fire--may be proved genuine and may result in praise, glory and honor when Jesus Christ is revealed.
Zech. 13:9 This third I will bring into the fire; I will refine them like silver and test them like gold. They will call on my name and I will answer them; I will say, 'They are my people,' and they will say, 'The LORD is our God.'"
The fire refines them so that they call on him. The old is destroyed and the new is born.
Romans 6:6 For we know that our old self was crucified with him so that the body of sin might be done away with, that we should no longer be slaves to sin--
Since the OP wanted to ask those who believe in UR questions maybe the answers could be directed at him rather than those who just want to oppose UR and are not interested in actually thinking about what we are saying
Clearly you are seeing things certain way just because you want to see them a certain way. None of the above verses support what you said earlier. Read the whole chapter of Peter for example and you will learn who he is talking about. He is talking about the faithful.: "who through faith are shielded by God's power until the coming of the salvation that is ready to be revealed in the last time."
Yes they do support what I said.....you're the one choosing not to see. I know who Peter was speaking about but that in no way negates what the scripture is saying. Yes, the faithful are tried by FIRE in this life, and the unfaithful will be tried by FIRE in the next life. It's all spiritual fire. You cannot prove that the "fire" spoken of in the Bible is anything other than spiritual. My point was to show that it's spiritual, not literal.
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