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I already know this, but obviously Clarke seen something in the Greek that he called a parenthasis.
Depends on what you mean by "in the greek". Parenthesis are not physically there so they have to be implied. They can be implied for grammar reasons or meaning reasons.
a) without parenthesis the sentence is grammatically invalid so parenthesis are required.
b) without parenthesis the meaning of the sentence contradicts something we already know to be true, so the parenthesis are required.
All the reasons/arguments Clarke makes are in terms of meaning, not grammar.
Last edited by Thy Kingdom Come; 08-24-2009 at 07:13 AM..
myQuote: And we can know good and evil in Christ/life, we did not have to experience in to understandit.
Quote:
What your saying implies to me that "take up your cross and follow me" was not really necessary for us to do. We could have just known about it without experiencing it. But if Christ in the flesh is our example to follow.
No brother it does not mean that at all, for we do not fight against flesh and blood but against spiritual wickedness in high places. Therefore, we could have experience good and evil after the same fashion as Christ did, without disobedience.
Christ experienced evil without becoming intimate with evil.
Adam experience evil but became intimate with evil. (united with the devil)
Christ came to undo all the works of the devil, which are the tares in everyman life. (all the evils/sins within us from our unity with the devil).
There are two ways to experience evil, from without as Christ did, or by uniting and becoming intimate with evil.
No brother it does not mean that at all, for we do not fight against flesh and blood but against spiritual wickedness in high places. Therefore, we could have experience good and evil after the same fashion as Christ did, without disobedience.
That's what I've been saying too. But how was Christ to forgive sinners without any sinners at all? In the total absense of evil, how can anyone take up his cross and follow Christ?
Last edited by Thy Kingdom Come; 08-24-2009 at 07:32 AM..
Depends on what you mean by "in the greek". Parenthesis are not physically there so they have to be implied. They can be implied for grammar reasons or meaning reasons.
a) without parenthesis the sentence is grammatically invalid so parenthesis are required.
b) without parenthesis the meaning of the sentence contradicts something we already know to be true, so the parenthesis are required.
All the reasons/arguments Clarke makes are in terms of meaning, not grammar.
Could be brother, we don't really know because Clarkes not around to explain himself.
But in Weymouth’s translation he has –- in the same place as Clarke placed the parenthesis, which would indicate that he also seen parenthesis there.
We also have the testimony of the rest of scripture concerning predestinate, and in every case it is apllied to Christ and us in Christ.
So why in the world would it only in one place be apllied to something other than Christ?
Everything needs a twofold witness to be established as true and there is no other witness in scripture that predestination is apllied to anything other than Christ and us in Christ.
That's what I've been saying too. But how was Christ to forgive sinners without any sinners at all? In the total absense of evil, how can anyone take up his cross and follow Christ?
Sin and evil are of the devil and they were in the world before the commandment but were not imputed unto men.
They became imputed unto man the moment man became intimate with satan.
Quote:
But how was Christ to forgive sinners without any sinners at all?
Everything needs a twofold witness to be established as true and there is no other witness in scripture that predestination is apllied to anything other than Christ and us in Christ.
There are no other scriptures using the word "predestination" but there are far more than two showing God intended evil to take place.
God moved David to number Israel.
God hardened pharoah's heart.
God making vessels of disohonor by hardening their hearts.
God putting Job into Satan's hand to harm him.
God giving Paul a messenger of Satan to buffet him and keep him humble.
He has torn us, he will heal us.
He has smitten us, He will bind us up.
If a prophet be decieved, I the LORD have deceived that prophet.
God put in their hearts to agree and give their kingdom unto the beast.
The LORD hath put a lying spirit in the mouth of all these thy prophets.
Behold, I will raise up evil against thee out of thine own house.
Is there evil in the city and the LORD has not done it.
God sends a strong delusion that they should believe a lie.
There are no other scriptures using the word "predestination" but there are far more than two showing God intended evil to take place.
God moved David to number Israel.
God hardened pharoah's heart.
God making vessels of disohonor by hardening their hearts.
God putting Job into Satan's hand to harm him.
God giving Paul a messenger of Satan to buffet him and keep him humble.
He has torn us, he will heal us.
He has smitten us, He will bind us up.
If a prophet be decieved, I the LORD have deceived that prophet.
God put in their hearts to agree and give their kingdom unto the beast.
The LORD hath put a lying spirit in the mouth of all these thy prophets.
Behold, I will raise up evil against thee out of thine own house.
Is there evil in the city and the LORD has not done it.
God sends a strong delusion that they should believe a lie.
Bob I don't have the time to go through all those scriptures, but like the ones I have studied everything is not as black and white as you seem to think they are. Do those scriptures actually say what you think they say or is it a bad translation (as I have shown with the scripture that say God creates evil), people attributing to something to God that God never actually said but have taken literally what was actually spiritual (as I have shown about God commanding people to kill people).
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