Ezekiel 38-39 Battle of Gog of Magog

[ChristyGrl]

Originally Posted by SC122

well it's certainly all very confusing,to say the least.I mean if the bible says the earth abideth forever and that springtime and harvest shall always remain;it's hard to imagine it remaining when it's nearly destroyed by nukes,or any kind of weapon or weapons,for that matter.

This proves to be a huge contradiction of the infallible and inerrant word of god doesn't it...in light of the new heaven and new earth portrayed in Revelation.

Originally Posted by SC122

didn't Jesus say 'verily I say unto you,some of you standing here today will not taste death',when talking about the rapture?and there are other things He said that lead me to believe He was talking in His own present tense,not yrs down the road.

Actually your quote is a little misleading because the word "today" was never part of the message...this actually applies to the people Jesus was speaking to 2000+ years ago and in no way has anything to do with a rapture.

Matthew 16:27-28

27 "For the Son of Man is going to come in the glory of His Father with His angels, and WILL THEN REPAY EVERY MAN ACCORDING TO HIS DEEDS.
28 "Truly I say to you, there are some of those who are standing here who will not taste death until they see the Son of Man coming in His kingdom."

[SC122]

hey didn't I hear Valdimir rode in on a Harley recently? seriously?

[InsaneInDaMembrane]

Originally Posted by SC122

hey didn't I hear Valdimir rode in on a Harley recently? seriously?

He's going to trade that for a black stallion so he can go and invade Israel.

[SC122]

ok,I got ya now insane.of course,it makes sense now.

and thank you for that christygrl.

[Romulus0]

I have to disagree that this prophecy is for the 21st century. We have to remember that the prophecy meant something to those that first heard it.

Ezekial was given the prophecy during the time of the Babylonian exile around the 500's B.C.(depending if you agree with the historical date.) This now makes it clear that God will restore the people of Israel to their land. God is addressing the Jews that were (when the prophecy was given) in exile in Babylon by Nebuchadnezzar.

If this prophecy is about the 21st Century or beyond, then the prophecies given to Ezekiel about Israel's restoration had absolutely no relevance to those that first heard it. We know that the War of Gog and Magog now cannot be before the 500's B.C. time frame.

Our next clue is further into Ezekiel regarding the temple prophecied in chapter 40-44 which is chronologically after the war of Gog and Magog.

The temple prophecied includes rooms for sacrifices of animals etc. and the priests will partake in eating the offerings etc. This cannot be past Calvery since Christ became the Final Sacrifice. There is no substitute. The temple prophecied cannot be built after Christ fulfilled the Covenant. God was clear that there is no longer a need for temples since He now reigns with His people. Since the temple cannot be built past Christ we have a date of 30-33 A.D. that the war of gog and magog can be located in, not further.

Prophecy given during the Babylonian exile
Audience: The exiles of Israel

Timeframe it can be fulfilled in
Beginning-500's B.C. (Babylonian Exile)
Ending-30-33 A.D. (Calvery)

We cannot go before or after this timeframe. If we do, then the prophecies concerning the restoration of Israel to her home was not for those that first heard it and therefore not about them. This makes no sense because the audience that heard it was currently the Jews who were exiled from their home in Israel. God is then ignoring His audience and favoring one 2500+ years later and the message given during the exile was a false one since anyone hearing it would have believed it was for them who were currently in captivety.

Here are some scriptures from Ezekiel concerning the war:

Ezekiel 38

38:1 And the word of the Lord came to me, saying,
38:2 Son of man, set thy face against Gog, and the land of Magog, Rhos, prince of Mesoch and Thobel, and prophesy against him,
38:3 and say to him, Thus saith the Lord God; Behold, I am against thee, Rhos prince of Mesoch and Thobel:
38:4 and I will gather thee, and all thine host, horses and horsemen, all wearing breast-plates, with a great multitude, shields and helmets and swords:
38:5 Persians, and Ethiopians, and Libyans; all with helmets and shields.
38:6 Gomer, and all belonging to him; the house of Thorgama, from the end of the north, and all belonging to him; and many nations with thee.
38:7 Be thou prepared, prepare thyself, thou, and all thy multitude that is assembled with thee, and thou shalt be to me for a guard.
38:8 He shall be prepared after many days, and he shall come at the end of years, and shall come to a land that is brought back from the sword, when [the people] are gathered from many nations against the land of Israel, which was entirely desolate: and he is come forth out of the nations, and they shall all dwell securely.
38:9 And thou shalt go up as rain, and shalt arrive as a cloud to cover the land, and there shall be thou, and all that are about thee, and many nations with thee.
38:10 Thus saith the Lord God; It shall also come to pass in that day, that thoughts shall come up into thine heart, and thou shalt devise evil devices.
38:11 And thou shalt say, I will go up to the rejected land; I will come upon them that are at ease in tranquility, and dwelling in peace, all inhabiting a land in which there is no wall, nor bars, nor have they doors;

Ezekiel 39
1"Son of man, prophesy against Gog and say: 'This is what the Sovereign LORD says: I am against you, O Gog, chief prince of [a] Meshech and Tubal. 2 I will turn you around and drag you along. I will bring you from the far north and send you against the mountains of Israel. 3 Then I will strike your bow from your left hand and make your arrows drop from your right hand. 4 On the mountains of Israel you will fall, you and all your troops and the nations with you. I will give you as food to all kinds of carrion birds and to the wild animals. 5 You will fall in the open field, for I have spoken, declares the Sovereign LORD. 6 I will send fire on Magog and on those who live in safety in the coastlands, and they will know that I am the LORD.

First off, this must be an ancient war, not one in the 21st century. Notice that swords and horses are used and open field warfare was a reality in biblical times, not today. Ezekiel was clearly given a prophecy of a war in his time and not ours. I have heard the argument that modern weapons were not shown since Ezekiel would not have understood what he was witnessing.

If God meant modern times there would have been some indication that it was to be fulfilled 2500 years later. There is no indication anywhere in the scripture. God showed the weapons of the time because it WAS for that time. Also if it was not for the exiles of Israel it is a kick in the face to them since all of Israel in Babylon were waiting to be restored back to Jerusalem. We cannot ignore that Israel was currently in exile.

Modern times does not have "open field" warfare with bows and arrows. God was clear that this was an ancient war.

Next we find a connection in the bolded scripture shown here:

Ezekiel 38

38:11 And thou shalt say, I will go up to the rejected land; I will come upon them that are at ease in tranquility, and dwelling in peace, all inhabiting a land in which there is no wall, nor bars, nor have they doors;

The hebrew word for "unwalled villages" is perazah. Here it is noted in strongs:

H-6519. perazah, per-aw-zaw';
from the same as H-6518; an open country:--(unwalled) town (without walls), unwalled village.

The word perazah is used only in two other places in scripture. The first is in Zechariah:

Zechariah 2
A Man With a Measuring Line
[SIZE=2]1 Then I looked up—and there before me was a man with a measuring line in his hand! 2 I asked, "Where are you going?" [/SIZE]
[SIZE=2]He answered me, "To measure Jerusalem, to find out how wide and how long it is." [/SIZE]
[SIZE=2]3 Then the angel who was speaking to me left, and another angel came to meet him 4 and said to him: "Run, tell that young man, 'Jerusalem will be a city without walls because of the great number of men and livestock in it. 5 And I myself will be a wall of fire around it,' declares the LORD, 'and I will be its glory within.' [/SIZE]
[SIZE=2]6 "Come! Come! Flee from the land of the north," declares the LORD, "for I have scattered you to the four winds of heaven," declares the LORD. [/SIZE]
[SIZE=2]7 "Come, O Zion! Escape, you who live in the Daughter of Babylon!" 8 For this is what the LORD Almighty says: "After he has honored me and has sent me against the nations that have plundered you—for whoever touches you touches the apple of his eye- 9 I will surely raise my hand against them so that their slaves will plunder them. [a] Then you will know that the LORD Almighty has sent me. [/SIZE]

First off, God states that Israel will be a "city without walls". Most commentaters believe this has never described Israel until sometime in the near future but that is not true. Zechariah was given the above scripture again during the Babylonian exile just like Ezekiel and it was describing Jerusalem in the Gog and Magog war so this does give a clue as to when it was fulfilled. The word perazah is used above and in one other place in scripture:

Esther 9 (KJV)

1Now in the twelfth month, that is, the month Adar, on the thirteenth day of the same, when the king's commandment and his decree drew near to be put in execution, in the day that the enemies of the Jews hoped to have power over them, (though it was turned to the contrary, that the Jews had rule over them that hated them.
2The Jews gathered themselves together in their cities throughout all the provinces of the king Ahasuerus, to lay hand on such as sought their hurt: and no man could withstand them; for the fear of them fell upon all people.

Esther 9
19Therefore the Jews of the villages, that dwelt in the unwalled towns, made the fourteenth day of the month Adar a day of gladness and feasting, and a good day, and of sending portions one to another.
20And Mordecai wrote these things, and sent letters unto all the Jews that were in all the provinces of the king Ahasuerus, both nigh and far,
21To stablish this among them, that they should keep the fourteenth day of the month Adar, and the fifteenth day of the same, yearly,
22As the days wherein the Jews rested from their enemies, and the month which was turned unto them from sorrow to joy, and from mourning into a good day: that they should make them days of feasting and joy, and of sending portions one to another, and gifts to the poor.

All the nations mentioned in Ezekiel's war were also within the realm of the Persian Empire in the time of Esther and historically were involved in the war to exterminate the Jews.

Ezekiel 38

38:5 Persians, and Ethiopians, and Libyans; all with helmets and shields.
38:6 Gomer, and all belonging to him; the house of Thorgama, from the end of the north, and all belonging to him; and many nations with thee.

These nations were of the persian empire in the time of Esther. When was the war of Esther? It was after the Jews were restored to their homeland and in a time of peace just as scripture states. It does not go further then a date of 30-33 A.D. and this would make the identity of Gog as Haman, King Xerxes 2nd in command who was hanged for his actions against the Jews(or more specifically against Queen Esther herself.) Next we have:

Ezekiel 39
11" 'On that day I will give Gog a burial place in Israel, in the valley of those who travel east toward [b] the Sea. [c] It will block the way of travelers, because Gog and all his hordes will be buried there. So it will be called the Valley of Hamon Gog.

There may be some connection since Haman is so close to the name mentioned above but nonetheless, we have a good candidate for the war in Ezekiel and it's fulfillment in Esther. I don't believe it to be a coincidence that perazah is used both in Ezekiel and Esther. Esther was very clear that Jerusalem was known to have villages that were unwalled so I must disagree with the argument stating this cannot describe Jerusalem in ancient times.

The war of Gog and Magog is about Esther's war in my opinion and I believe there is enough scriptural and historical support for this assumption. It is after 500 b.c. and before Christ did away with temple worship. Also Israel WAS restored back to Jerusalem before the war occurred under Cyrus of the Medo-Persian Empire. Everything fits together nicely within the timeframe we must adhere to.

[granpa]

just a quick note about Ez 38:5

Persians-east
Ethiopians-south
Libyans-west
Gomer-north

the same is true of several other passages too