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Ezekiel 18
4 Behold, all souls are mine; as the soul of the father, so also the soul of the son is mine: the soul that sinneth, it shall die.
God is saying that the soul who commits sin will die.
Then, we read where Paul is addressing believers:
Hebrews 10
24 And let us consider one another to provoke unto love and to good works:
25 Not forsaking the assembling of ourselves together, as the manner of some is; but exhorting one another: and so much the more, as ye see the day approaching.
26 For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins,
27 But a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries.
28 He that despised Moses' law died without mercy under two or three witnesses:
29 Of how much sorer punishment, suppose ye, shall he be thought worthy, who hath trodden under foot the Son of God, and hath counted the blood of the covenant, wherewith he was sanctified, an unholy thing, and hath done despite unto the Spirit of grace?
30 For we know him that hath said, Vengeance belongeth unto me, I will recompense, saith the Lord. And again, The Lord shall judge his people.
31 It is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God
Jesus died to forgive our sins -- and to deliver us from committing sins. Anyone who dies that we must live free from sin is denying God's power to deliver us from all our sinning ways.
2 Timothy 3
1 This know also, that in the last days perilous times shall come.
2 For men shall be lovers of their own selves, covetous, boasters, proud, blasphemers, disobedient to parents, unthankful, unholy,
3 Without natural affection, trucebreakers, false accusers, incontinent, fierce, despisers of those that are good,
4 Traitors, heady, highminded, lovers of pleasures more than lovers of God;
5 Having a form of godliness, but denying the power thereof: from such turn away.
Correction: Anyone who denies that we must live free from sin is denying God's power to deliver us from all our sinning ways.
Christians believe that God created this whole complex universe and beyond; yet, they deny that God has the power to set us free from all sinning. It was one sin, not two or three, that caused this fallen human race, so why would God ever endorse people committing sin now?
Why are we always trying to withhold the sinner from the kingdom of God . Why is the church on the offence and defence regarding sin .
There is not even a message coming from your ranks regarding salvation , just some kind of revolt that God is denying entrance to the unrepentant sinner.
Guess you guys never heard of King David. How many times did he willfully sin, knowing right from wrong, but allowing his flesh to run his life, and yet HE was considered by YHVH "a man after my own heart". Hmmmm what a concept. You sin, you Teshuvah (turn back to YHVH) and repent with a sincere heart about it and are given a covering. Guess you've also sold Yahushua (the Messiah) and HIS sacrifice very short as well. Better go back and read Romans 8 once more as well ;-)
Ezekiel 18
4 Behold, all souls are mine; as the soul of the father, so also the soul of the son is mine: the soul that sinneth, it shall die.
God is saying that the soul who commits sin will die.
Then, we read where Paul is addressing believers:
Hebrews 10
24 And let us consider one another to provoke unto love and to good works:
25 Not forsaking the assembling of ourselves together, as the manner of some is; but exhorting one another: and so much the more, as ye see the day approaching.
26 For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins,
27 But a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries.
28 He that despised Moses' law died without mercy under two or three witnesses:
29 Of how much sorer punishment, suppose ye, shall he be thought worthy, who hath trodden under foot the Son of God, and hath counted the blood of the covenant, wherewith he was sanctified, an unholy thing, and hath done despite unto the Spirit of grace?
30 For we know him that hath said, Vengeance belongeth unto me, I will recompense, saith the Lord. And again, The Lord shall judge his people.
31 It is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God
Jesus died to forgive our sins -- and to deliver us from committing sins. Anyone who dies that we must live free from sin is denying God's power to deliver us from all our sinning ways.
2 Timothy 3
1 This know also, that in the last days perilous times shall come.
2 For men shall be lovers of their own selves, covetous, boasters, proud, blasphemers, disobedient to parents, unthankful, unholy,
3 Without natural affection, trucebreakers, false accusers, incontinent, fierce, despisers of those that are good,
4 Traitors, heady, highminded, lovers of pleasures more than lovers of God;
5 Having a form of godliness, but denying the power thereof: from such turn away.
The context of the chapter, indeed of the whole letter is that it is to the Hebrews and their willing sin. Paul is talking about how the power of the atonement sacrifice had been stopped(fulfilled) in Christ.
"Of how much sorer punishment, suppose ye, shall he be thought worthy, who hath trodden under foot the Son of God, and hath counted the blood of the covenant, wherewith he was sanctified, an unholy thing, and hath done despite unto the Spirit of grace?"
What is despite unto the spirit of Grace? Their counting Christ sacrifice an unholy thing. He is telling the Hebrews that Christ sacrifice stopped the yearly atonement sacrifice, and is the final sacrifice for all sin, that is the meaning of Grace. They think Christ sacrifice is unholy and despite it and the spirit of grace when they do not deem it worthy of such. The willing sin of the Hebrews was to continue in the law and not recieve the power of Grace in Christ.
I'll believe you have stopped sinning when you turn into a being of light and transcend time and space.
Last edited by Ironmaw1776; 06-27-2009 at 11:54 PM..
Ezekiel 18
4 Behold, all souls are mine; as the soul of the father, so also the soul of the son is mine: the soul that sinneth, it shall die.
God is saying that the soul who commits sin will die.
Then, we read where Paul is addressing believers:
Hebrews 10
24 And let us consider one another to provoke unto love and to good works:
25 Not forsaking the assembling of ourselves together, as the manner of some is; but exhorting one another: and so much the more, as ye see the day approaching.
26 For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins,
27 But a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries.
28 He that despised Moses' law died without mercy under two or three witnesses:
29 Of how much sorer punishment, suppose ye, shall he be thought worthy, who hath trodden under foot the Son of God, and hath counted the blood of the covenant, wherewith he was sanctified, an unholy thing, and hath done despite unto the Spirit of grace?
30 For we know him that hath said, Vengeance belongeth unto me, I will recompense, saith the Lord. And again, The Lord shall judge his people.
31 It is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God
Jesus died to forgive our sins -- and to deliver us from committing sins. Anyone who dies that we must live free from sin is denying God's power to deliver us from all our sinning ways.
2 Timothy 3
1 This know also, that in the last days perilous times shall come.
2 For men shall be lovers of their own selves, covetous, boasters, proud, blasphemers, disobedient to parents, unthankful, unholy,
3 Without natural affection, trucebreakers, false accusers, incontinent, fierce, despisers of those that are good,
4 Traitors, heady, highminded, lovers of pleasures more than lovers of God;
5 Having a form of godliness, but denying the power thereof: from such turn away.
i missed the point u are trying to make............
1 John 3
6 Whosoever abideth in him sinneth not: whosoever sinneth hath not seen him, neither known him.
7 Little children, let no man deceive you: he that doeth righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous.
8 He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil.
9 Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.
Guess you guys never heard of King David. How many times did he willfully sin, knowing right from wrong, but allowing his flesh to run his life, and yet HE was considered by YHVH "a man after my own heart". Hmmmm what a concept. You sin, you Teshuvah (turn back to YHVH) and repent with a sincere heart about it and are given a covering. Guess you've also sold Yahushua (the Messiah) and HIS sacrifice very short as well. Better go back and read Romans 8 once more as well ;-)
King David lived before the promised was fulfilled. Jesus came with deliverance through His shed blood; His ministry was about healing and delivering people. Through Jesus, people no longer have to be in the bondage of the devil; and, sin is bondage.
1 John 3
5 And ye know that he was manifested to take away our sins; and in him is no sin.
6 Whosoever abideth in him sinneth not: whosoever sinneth hath not seen him, neither known him.
Forasmuch then as Christ hath suffered for us in the flesh, arm yourselves likewise with the same mind: for he that hath suffered in the flesh hath ceased from sin; That he no longer should live the rest of his time in the flesh to the lusts of men, but to the will of God. (1 Peter 4: 1-2)
1 John 3
6 Whosoever abideth in him sinneth not: whosoever sinneth hath not seen him, neither known him.
7 Little children, let no man deceive you: he that doeth righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous.
8 He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil.
9 Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.
Again ... Taken out of the context of the scripture collectively. The context of the chapter alone is love. And willing sin is a life without conscientious inspiration, but to live without regard to sin. It is evident throughout scripture that even those blessed of God sinned, old and new testament alike. You choose to disregard these scripture which testifies of the truth of these things in FAVOR of this one scripture taken out of context. You should be reconciling them to each other to gain the full perspective of scripture in regard to them all.
We are told to confess our sins to one another in an earlier chapter, which completely renders the argument that this verse refers to common human transgression and tendency to sin(even as believers) to be completely out of context. According to Jesus if you think it it is just like doing it. Just thinking about sinning is sin. Anger, pride, lust, treachery ... Sins of the heart before we even act on them.
It amazes me how people neglect to consolidate together the various scriptures concerning a topic and instead opt to attach themselves to a few select verses as if they alone are right in spite of what else scripture has to say on the matter. If Christians couldn't sin after truly believing we would not be exhorted to resist temptation. There would be no need to confess to one another or to ask god to forgive us our trespasses even as we forgive others. It is the wicked servant that extorts his fellows in the name of righteousness ... The wicked servant condemns where he was forgiven.
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