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Sorry you misunderstood what I posted, after verses I put that OBEDIENCE WAS SOMETHING THAT WOULD SET US A PART.
ANSWER: You're right I certainly didn't mean God the Holy Father would actually write on us, brand us or put a some kind of mark on us.
Some of the meanings of to BIND:
1. to make certain
2. to be obligated, as a sense of moral duty
3. to make certain
4. to be indentured to
5. to place under oath
6. an act of binding or the state of being bound
Bound to what, to God's the words, which He was commanding. Due. 6:6
I believe by HAND is what we will be Doing. Such as giving a cup of cold water, (with our hand) giving an offering, feeding the hungry, visiting the sick,
doing His will. Doing what He said, such as diligently teaching them, talking about them, walking in them. Doing what He talking about and was teaching.
On your FOREHEAD: I think it means keeping the scriptures in our minds, have a Christ like mind, thinking good not evil, worshiping Him, believing all He taught, thinking about Him, meditating day and night. All of this take place in our minds or forehead.
Now Rev. 13:14 says in part And he (the beast) will deceives those who dwell on the earth. Where do you get deceived? In you Mind (forehead). And he will tell those who live on the earth to make an image (how will they make it, with their Hands) He will cause all to worship him (worship in the mind). Those that are deceived, small and great, rich and poor, free men and slaves, will be doing all that the beast requires of them.
And as many as do not worship the image of the beast to be killed.
Revelation 14:12 Here is the perseverance of the SAINTS, who keep the commandments of God and Their faith in Jesus.
Revelation 12:17 And the dragon (devil) was enraged with the woman, (the church) and went off to make war with the rest of her offspring who keep the commandments of God and hold to the testimony of Jesus.
Mark 12:30 And you shall love the Lord your God with all your heart, and with your soul, and with all your mind, and with all your strength.
Mark 12:33 And to Love Him with all the heart and with all the understanding and with all the strength, and to love one's neighbor as himself.
If you'd like to listen or view something interesting, go to White Horse Media, and watch the Mark Of The Beast.
To all brothers and sisters in Christ, I'm glad that we can post what we believe, and in doing so know that no one will judge us and hopefully not get confused as to what each of us is trying to say. God Bless You
Hello again,
Now it's my turn to say you misunderstood me.
Well, actually I didn't express myself very well. Let me back up and start over again. I should have started my last post by saying, "I don't believe the 'mark' is a literal "mark" on one's forehead and or hand. "
You know an implant, chip, etc.
Now having stated that let me tell you what I meant when I replied to your post. Because I don' think the mark is literal it really impressed me when you started your post with Deut. 6:8:
De 6:8 And thou shalt bind them for a sign upon thine hand, and they shall be as frontlets between thine eyes.
And judging from your reply back to me (correct me if I'm wrong) I think you misunderstood my Q. I am the one at fault for I didn't word it very well.
What I was asking you is this. Do you think God intended for them to actually bind the laws on their hands or hang them before their eyes? And thinking you would know the obvious answer was, no. I answered the question for you.
Then I was trying to compare Deut. with Rev. and saying that's why I don't think the mark IS literal. For if in Deut. it wasn't to be taken literally then Rev. would be the same...
In Rev, the 'mark' is in a person's forehead (in their brain/believing him) and 'on' their hand by working for him (the antichrist).
If it's not literal, then how do you explain not being able to buy or sell without a "MARK"?? They (the AntiChrist and his minions) are just going to take people's word on it that they worship him?? No, it has to be literal. There's no way around it. I think your theory is right as far as it also being spiritual, but it has to be literal in this world.
SeekerSA has an interesting theory about Biometrics. But it would have to include being able to read people's minds. A visual, non-removable mark is in order. That's why the Bible says that those who "take the mark" are doomed.
If it's not literal, then how do you explain not being able to buy or sell without a "MARK"?? They (the AntiChrist and his minions) are just going to take people's word on it that they worship him?? No, it has to be literal. There's no way around it. I think your theory is right as far as it also being spiritual, but it has to be literal in this world.
SeekerSA has an interesting theory about Biometrics. But it would have to include being able to read people's minds. A visual, non-removable mark is in order. That's why the Bible says that those who "take the mark" are doomed.
I'm not sure myself, but the meaning of such has to be spiritual in nature, imo. The "mark" would be a system (or condition) in place in which we have totally given ourselves over to a reliance on the flesh - in other words a dependence on our ability to function without God - which is my definition of what "antiChrist" is.
I don't believe the mark is literal, although marks can be literal.
What do you work for?
What do you stress about?
What do you need, and what does it take to fulfill those needs?
What do countries fight over?
What do they control?
I really believe this mark can be anything that takes OUR focus(mind), and our work(hands) away from our greatest Command, which is to love the Lord our God with all of our Heart, MIND, BODY(includes hands), and Soul.
For most of humanity, this would easily be descibed as money, since money is a primary root cause of evil, and you do need it to buy and sell. But really, if there was no money, then maybe our labor could be the mark as well since it is us who strive in our work to put food on the tables.
Saying it is anything but, and it would require a "vow" or worship to a literal beast, is saying that the faith of millions is waiting to be tested, WHILE it is already being tested.
How many are at wits end, losing their houses, struggling to buy food, and being laid off their jobs, and then THIS becomes the strife that encompasses their lives. Would you not say that they have a mark of the beast?
We cannot take our eyes off our King, for when we do, we submit to another king, not unlike the Israelites of old.
I don't believe the mark is literal, although marks can be literal.
What do you work for?
What do you stress about?
What do you need, and what does it take to fulfill those needs?
What do countries fight over?
What do they control?
I really believe this mark can be anything that takes OUR focus(mind), and our work(hands) away from our greatest Command, which is to love the Lord our God with all of our Heart, MIND, BODY(includes hands), and Soul.
For most of humanity, this would easily be descibed as money, since money is a primary root cause of evil, and you do need it to buy and sell. But really, if there was no money, then maybe our labor could be the mark as well since it is us who strive in our work to put food on the tables.
Saying it is anything but, and it would require a "vow" or worship to a literal beast, is saying that the faith of millions is waiting to be tested, WHILE it is already being tested.
How many are at wits end, losing their houses, struggling to buy food, and being laid off their jobs, and then THIS becomes the strife that encompasses their lives. Would you not say that they have a mark of the beast?
We cannot take our eyes off our King, for when we do, we submit to another king, not unlike the Israelites of old.
Hmmmm...some very interesting observations here. I must say I had never thought of it that way, but you make some good points.
I've read the passage over and over about not being able to buy and sell without the 'mark' and I have to say that "I" feel that somehow 'we're' not understanding what's being said in that passage?
Why do I say that? Aside from the fact that the book of Revelation is highly symbolic, the fact still remains we do have to eat, have shelter, etc etc. Yet we know we can never take the mark. So how do we resolve this
dilemma? Some have suggested storing extra provisions and water, etc etc. But my problem with that is 'how much is enough?" And if we 'run out' then what do we do?
For what it's worth, I have also heard that passage means this:
It will be too late to 'sell' the gospel because no one will be 'buying' it. And....
The bar code on all our productions has the number 666 in the middle so we are already 'buying and selling' with the mark of the beast.
Do I agree with these two observations? I dunno .
So what do you think?
blessings
P.S. I totally agree about keeping our eyes on Jesus!!
Last edited by mshipmate; 02-16-2009 at 08:21 AM..
Reason: correct spelling
Although Revelation is symbolic, it is not ALL symbolic. Everything "stands" for something, but the buying and selling is pretty straightforward and I believe too much is read into it because people are trying too hard to MAKE it symbolic.
The AntiChrist is not symbolic for a "system", it will be a literal person. The Bible says "He" is literal. The "beast" is symbolic of a literal person. He is alive right now, and there is not much time left so going back and forth about symbolism is totally unproductive.
Mshipmate, preparing for not being able to buy and sell by stockpiling food is a good idea. But not for ourselves....the rapture will happen before the AntiChrist arrives on the scene so those ready won't have to worry about these things.
However, what can we do for those who will become martyrs for Christ during the tribulation?? We can leave behind stockpiles of food!!! And there will be martyrs, the Bible says so. We need to be thinking of them. Churches would be the ideal place, because that's where desperate people will go.
People following the AntiChrist won't be looking for stockpiles, they will have everything they need by way of the literal mark. Converted Christians will be drawn to abandoned, burned-out churches, because that's what will happen to the churches imo. Secret rooms in basements of churches I'm sure are already full. God will help the martyrs find what they need. We can help them make sure there is something to find.
SeekerSA has an interesting theory about Biometrics. But it would have to include being able to read people's minds. A visual, non-removable mark is in order. That's why the Bible says that those who "take the mark" are doomed.
It is not theory here in SA. We already are using thumb print scanners with our driver's licenses. Been doing this for about 4 years now.
Unique marks are finger prints, retina, iris, voice, even your face, twins are similar not identical to scanners. Using human "marks" would be the only viable way a MoB could be put in place with respect to the Woo Woo OWG and single global currency. However, many parts of the world do not even have simple things like auto tellers yet.
Some have already expressed in this thread what the Mark may be but it certainly will not be a chip, neither will it be a natural mark either.
Just the ETM profits want you to believe in this nonsense.
Like I have said many times before, when you start taking Revelation literal, the whole book must be taken as such and that includes a literal beast coming from the sea with multiple heads. Choosing which is symbolic and which is literal is circular logic.
Revelation is not a future ETM book, it should be interpreted individually.
Hmmmm...some very interesting observations here. I must say I had never thought of it that way, but you make some good points.
I've read the passage over and over about not being able to buy and sell without the 'mark' and I have to say that "I" feel that somehow 'we're' not understanding what's being said in that passage?
Why do I say that? Aside from the fact that the book of Revelation is highly symbolic, the fact still remains we do have to eat, have shelter, etc etc. Yet we know we can never take the mark. So how do we resolve this
dilemma? Some have suggested storing extra provisions and water, etc etc. But my problem with that is 'how much is enough?" And if we 'run out' then what do we do?
For what it's worth, I have also heard that passage means this:
It will be too late to 'sell' the gospel because no one will be 'buying' it. And....
The bar code on all our productions has the number 666 in the middle so we are already 'buying and selling' with the mark of the beast.
Do I agree with these two observations? I dunno .
So what do you think?
blessings
P.S. I totally agree about keeping our eyes on Jesus!!
I have heard almost all of these, "insights", as to what the mark could be. I have come to realize that the mark HAD to have been in the time of Rome, for that is WHO John as writing to. But at the same time, it HAS to be written for all generations. Maybe it is not. Jesus said to those trying to trap Him,
Mat 22:20
And he saith unto them, Whose [is] this image and superscription?
Mat 22:21
They say unto him, Caesar's. Then saith he unto them, Render therefore unto Caesar the things which are Caesar's; and unto God the things that are God's.
Do you see the line drawn? Jesus right here is giving us the answer to the mysterious Revelation, but like I said, it is probably deeper than "just" money.
...the rapture will happen before the AntiChrist arrives on the scene so those ready won't have to worry about these things.
Not directed at me, but I have to directly disagree here - while we may not see eye to eye on a physical rapture, surely you can see the spirit of anti-Christ prevalent in the world today?
Although Revelation is symbolic, it is not ALL symbolic. Everything "stands" for something, but the buying and selling is pretty straightforward and I believe too much is read into it because people are trying too hard to MAKE it symbolic.
The AntiChrist is not symbolic for a "system", it will be a literal person. The Bible says "He" is literal. The "beast" is symbolic of a literal person. He is alive right now, and there is not much time left so going back and forth about symbolism is totally unproductive.
Mshipmate, preparing for not being able to buy and sell by stockpiling food is a good idea. But not for ourselves....the rapture will happen before the AntiChrist arrives on the scene so those ready won't have to worry about these things.
However, what can we do for those who will become martyrs for Christ during the tribulation?? We can leave behind stockpiles of food!!! And there will be martyrs, the Bible says so. We need to be thinking of them. Churches would be the ideal place, because that's where desperate people will go.
People following the AntiChrist won't be looking for stockpiles, they will have everything they need by way of the literal mark. Converted Christians will be drawn to abandoned, burned-out churches, because that's what will happen to the churches imo. Secret rooms in basements of churches I'm sure are already full. God will help the martyrs find what they need. We can help them make sure there is something to find.
This theology, DOTL, is rather new to Christians. Just because technology exists to implant a device into the skin, really do you honestly think this is what John saw? And as far as an "anti-christ", do you really think this is going to be a literal world wide leader, not unlike Nero of old, that will captivate the entire world? Really?
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