The book of Enoch...why isn't it in the bible? (reincarnation, exodus)
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Because it is not inspired and condradicts the bible. An inspired book cannot contradict the rest of the bible. And for all of those who say that the bible contradicts itself, I say that men contradict themselves. Every "contradiction" that is brought up usually has an answer with a little research. But if you already start out doubting the bible as the word of God, then you won't even bother looking.
Enoch does not contradict the OT or NT, and lays the foundations of the Gospel which Jesus came, bringing, and lays the foundation for every doctrine of the OT and NT which is referred to but not explained foundationally, within those books, because Enoch had already revealed those things as truth.
Enoch is in the "Bible" [which word means collection of books -deemed sacred] of the Essenes of the Qumran cave manuscript collections, and in the Bible of the Ethiopian Jews who believed the Gospel in the early days of the Church and who had Enoch, because they were Jews living in Ethiopia, and who never banned Enoch when Rome did in the fourth century, because they were not under Rome.
Wow, you accually have the Dead Sea Scrolls...lol.
You and your family is extremely blessed to be so hungry for the Word!!!
Be Blessed,
Yahuchannon
I have DSS English translations which I bought through Amazon. At times the used copies can be purchased for small amounts, but they sometimes come up for silly prices. Just wait, and they come on again for reasonable prices.
Enoch does not contradict the OT or NT, and lays the foundations of the Gospel which Jesus came, bringing, and lays the foundation for every doctrine of the OT and NT which is referred to but not explained foundationally, within those books, because Enoch had already revealed those things as truth.
Enoch is in the "Bible" [which word means collection of books -deemed sacred] of the Essenes of the Qumran cave manuscript collections, and in the Bible of the Ethiopian Jews who believed the Gospel in the early days of the Church and who had Enoch, because they were Jews living in Ethiopia, and who never banned Enoch when Rome did in the fourth century, because they were not under Rome.
Sure it contradicts the bible. It talks about people 450 feet tall. It talks about an angel named Panuel ,who is never mentioned anywhere else, who is set over the repentance of those who inherit eternal life. That Contradicts 1 Timothty 2:5.
Weird terms not used in the rest of the bible are used like "head of days" and "Lord of spirits". It talks about the son of man named. When was Jesus named in Heaven? It says he was named in the presence of the Lord of Spirits and before the head of days. He is eternal. It attacks the deity of Jesus who Always has been and always will be, Revelation 1:8.
Apparently wisdom came from a demon named Penemue. And he taught mankind how to use ink and paper and that caused them to sin. Huh? Funny, I thought that Adam brought sin into the world by disobeying God, Romans 5:12, Galatians 5:19-21.
It speaks alot of mumbo jumbo and just feels out of place with the Word of God. It is not like the bible. Someone took quotes from the bible and used them in hit and miss ways in Enoch. And if even ONE tiny part of Enoch is wrong then it is not inspired. God promsied to perfectly preserve his word. He would not have let Enoch slip out of the completed perfect bible.
It contradicts the flood account. Genesis 6 talks about rain not coming to the earth until the flood. But Enoch says that there was always rain. Enoch talks about seasons, but seasons are not talked about until after the flood in the bible. Enoch 9:3 has men praying to angels. The bible prohibits that tho.
There is a math error. Book of Enoch said that Enoch got a vision in his 500th year. The bible says he only lived 365 days, see Genesis 5.
The book of Enoch would be the first written book of the bible. But yet it alludes to other bible verses that did not yet exist. This says that Enoch was written late but is claiming to be old.
It says that Enoch was 165 when Methuselah was born but the bible says that he was 65. It is also in first person saying how long he lived in past tense.
Moses never mentioned it. For he would not have been the first to write canon.
Sure it contradicts the bible. It talks about people 450 feet tall. It talks about an angel named Panuel ,who is never mentioned anywhere else, who is set over the repentance of those who inherit eternal life. That Contradicts 1 Timothty 2:5.
Weird terms not used in the rest of the bible are used like "head of days" and "Lord of spirits". ...
You did not read Enoch for yourself but read an anti-Enoch site and used their false arguments as if they are your own.
They lie
You fell for it without checking.
How tall giants were before the flood is not mentioned in the Tenach, so there is no contradiction there.
There is proof, in fossils, that everything was giant before the flood, with armadillo fossils as large as Volkswagon beetles, and dragonflies with three foot wing spans, and oysters that weighed a ton [or was that half a ton -link to giants in the earth is here -http://s8int.com/giants2.html -28 pages].
Phanuel/penuel/Penial means Angel of the Face from the Hebrew for "face", and Penuel was the angel who invoked His name [the hidden secret name in Enoch], "Israel" [Isaiah 49], over Jacob, and who was the pre-incarnate LORD Jesus Christ, and who was and is YHWH [in the Person of God the Word], as Hosea 12:3-5 states.
He invoked His name over Jacob and therefore, Israel [Jacob's seed] are "My people, called by My name".
Quote:
Sirach 36:
13 Gather together all the tribes of Jacob: that they may know that there is no God besides thee, and may declare thy great works: and thou shalt inherit them as from the beginning. 14 Have mercy on thy people, upon whom thy name is invoked: and upon Israel, whom thou hast raised up to be thy firstborn.
Gen 32:29 And Jacob asked [him], and said, Tell [me], I pray thee, thy name. And he said, Wherefore [is] it [that] thou dost ask after my name? And he blessed him there. Gen 32:30 And Jacob called the name of the place Peniel/פנואל Pĕnuw'el: for I have seen God face/פנים paniym to face/פנים paniym , and my life is preserved. Gen 32:31 And as he passed over Penuel/פנואל Pĕnuw'elthe sun rose upon him, and he halted upon his thigh.
Penuel was the angel who not only wrestled with Jacob, but was with Israel coming out of Egypt.
The Head of Days in Enoch is One who is come who was "hidden/secret" "with" the Head of Days, in Enoch [whom only Enoch saw with, God and who was God], and now revealed in flesh, slain, risen, ascended and glorified, and the same Ancient of Days in Daniel 7, and the same LORD Jesus Christ in Revelation 1.
Rev 1:14 His head and [his] hairs [were] white like wool, as white as snow; and his eyes [were] as a flame of fire; Rev 1:15 And his feet like unto fine brass, as if they burned in a furnace; and his voice as the sound of many waters. Rev 1:16 And he had in his right hand seven stars: and out of his mouth went a sharp twoedged sword: and his countenance [was] as the sun shineth in his strength. The Lord of spirits is the God of and Creator of all spirits, and therefore the same God of spirits and "Father of all spirits. Num 27:16 Let the LORD, the God of the spiritsof all flesh, set a man over the congregation, Hbr 12:9 Furthermore we have had fathers of our flesh which corrected [us], and we gave [them] reverence: shall we not much rather be in subjection unto the Father of spirits, and live?
I have totally blown away enough of the lies of the site you pasted your argument from to prove that you know nothing about Enoch and have proved no contradictions to anything in Enoch with anything if the Tenach or NT.
There was a book of the Bible that was thought lost by both the Eastern and Western orthodox Churches. It was a old testament book, not a part of the Tanakh, called the Book of Enoch. It existed in Ethiopia, were the Ethiopian Jews took it with them when they fled Isreal, and is considered canon by the Ethiopian church.
It was not part of the Canon bibles for the SOLE REASON that no one in Europe or the near east had a copy, BUT, all the early orthodox Christian fathers, Iranaeus, Justin, Clement, all said that it was indeed a inspired work...if only they could find a copy
So, it was lost, until the early part of the 1600s, when traders from Europe finally managed to get through the muslim-territory boundary between Christian Europe and Christian Ethiopia and get a couple of copies, but by then, it was too late, because the Nicene bible was done and no one wanted to include any new works.
Thing is...the book of Enoch IS REFERENCED TO IN THE CANONICAL NEW TESTAMENT! In the epistle of Jude, 14, it quotes directly from the book of Enoch.
So, here's a question to all of you who follow the Nicene Bible*...
Do you A, say "well, the Epistle of Jude quotes it, so it must be cannon!" and except it and go get a copy (at any Barnes and Noble under the Bible apocrypha section) and crazy glue it in the OT. Or, do you say B, "well, if the Epistle of Jude quotes a non-canon book, than the Epistle of Jude can't be canon!" and exacto knife it out of the NT?
Sorry...but how could you not do one or the other?
* by "Nicene Bible" I mean the protestant and caholic versions of the bible and those that except the Nicene creed.
Like 1st 2nd and 3rd Enoch, Jude is is pseudepigraphic ...
Like 1st 2nd and 3rd Enoch, Jude is is pseudepigraphic ...
There is another fragment of early literature that was found in Russia or Serbia. Little is known of its origin. This book is called "The Secrets of Enoch" Chapters 1-68...among the pages of the "LOST BOOKS"
My question is: is this part of 1st, 2nd, and 3rd Enoch?
As far I can tell, it does not bear any resemblance to the controversial one on this thread.
There is another fragment of early literature that was found in Russia or Serbia. Little is known of its origin. This book is called "The Secrets of Enoch" Chapters 1-68...among the pages of the "LOST BOOKS"
My question is: is this part of 1st, 2nd, and 3rd Enoch?
As far I can tell, it does not bear any resemblance to the controversial one on this thread.
I'm not familiar with that text ... but if you ask me, the book under discussion more resembles an alchemical treatise than an actual inspired work.
There is another fragment of early literature that was found in Russia or Serbia. Little is known of its origin. This book is called "The Secrets of Enoch" Chapters 1-68...among the pages of the "LOST BOOKS"
My question is: is this part of 1st, 2nd, and 3rd Enoch?
As far I can tell, it does not bear any resemblance to the controversial one on this thread.
No, it is not, and it does contradict Scripture, as the so called 2nd and 3rd Enoch also do.
You did not read Enoch for yourself but read an anti-Enoch site and used their false arguments as if they are your own.
They lie
You fell for it without checking.
How tall giants were before the flood is not mentioned in the Tenach, so there is no contradiction there.
There is proof, in fossils, that everything was giant before the flood, with armadillo fossils as large as Volkswagon beetles, and dragonflies with three foot wing spans, and oysters that weighed a ton [or was that half a ton -link to giants in the earth is here -http://s8int.com/giants2.html -28 pages].
Phanuel/penuel/Penial means Angel of the Face from the Hebrew for "face", and Penuel was the angel who invoked His name [the hidden secret name in Enoch], "Israel" [Isaiah 49], over Jacob, and who was the pre-incarnate LORD Jesus Christ, and who was and is YHWH [in the Person of God the Word], as Hosea 12:3-5 states.
He invoked His name over Jacob and therefore, Israel [Jacob's seed] are "My people, called by My name". Gen 32:29 And Jacob asked [him], and said, Tell [me], I pray thee, thy name. And he said, Wherefore [is] it [that] thou dost ask after my name? And he blessed him there. Gen 32:30 And Jacob called the name of the place Peniel/פנואל Pĕnuw'el: for I have seen God face/פנים paniym to face/פנים paniym , and my life is preserved. Gen 32:31 And as he passed over Penuel/פנואל Pĕnuw'elthe sun rose upon him, and he halted upon his thigh.
Penuel was the angel who not only wrestled with Jacob, but was with Israel coming out of Egypt.
The Head of Days in Enoch is One who is come who was "hidden/secret" "with" the Head of Days, in Enoch [whom only Enoch saw with, God and who was God], and now revealed in flesh, slain, risen, ascended and glorified, and the same Ancient of Days in Daniel 7, and the same LORD Jesus Christ in Revelation 1.
Rev 1:14 His head and [his] hairs [were] white like wool, as white as snow; and his eyes [were] as a flame of fire; Rev 1:15 And his feet like unto fine brass, as if they burned in a furnace; and his voice as the sound of many waters. Rev 1:16 And he had in his right hand seven stars: and out of his mouth went a sharp twoedged sword: and his countenance [was] as the sun shineth in his strength. The Lord of spirits is the God of and Creator of all spirits, and therefore the same God of spirits and "Father of all spirits. Num 27:16 Let the LORD, the God of the spiritsof all flesh, set a man over the congregation, Hbr 12:9 Furthermore we have had fathers of our flesh which corrected [us], and we gave [them] reverence: shall we not much rather be in subjection unto the Father of spirits, and live?
I have totally blown away enough of the lies of the site you pasted your argument from to prove that you know nothing about Enoch and have proved no contradictions to anything in Enoch with anything if the Tenach or NT.
You didn't really deal with most of what I pointed out. I doubt that you bothered reading much at all of the page I linked to. If anything you previewed it and assumed it was 100 percent wrong because it was anti Enoch. You didn't even deal with all of the issues I brought up. So I don't know what to tell you.
And the fact that you think that giants were 450 feet tall also makes me wonder. Does that even make logical sense to you? Do you realize how tall that is? Not to mention the size they would have been as babies as human women gave birth to them. Just think about that. Whenever giant men are ever mentioned in other palces of the bible they are never even close to that ridiculous number. Look up the Lincoln tower in bellevue washington. That building is as tall as the giants were claimed to of been. Come on.
Since you did not deal with all of my issues, I will assume that you do not have the answers and are still defending this unbiblical book. Don't know why, but that is your freedom to do so.
Last edited by ChristopherN79; 09-09-2011 at 03:11 AM..
You didn't really deal with most of what I pointed out. I doubt that you bothered reading much at all of the page I linked to. If anything you previewed it and assumed it was 100 percent wrong because it was anti Enoch. You didn't even deal with all of the issues I brought up. So I don't know what to tell you.
And the fact that you think that giants were 450 feet tall also makes me wonder. Does that even make logical sense to you? Do you realize how tall that is? Not to mention the size they would have been as babies as human women gave birth to them. Just think about that. Whenever giant men are ever mentioned in other palces of the bible they are never even close to that ridiculous number. Look up the Lincoln tower in bellevue washington. That building is as tall as the giants were claimed to of been. Come on.
Since you did not deal with all of my issues, I will assume that you do not have the answers and are still defending this unbiblical book. Don't know why, but that is your freedom to do so.
I have no interest in responding to reams and reams of false misrepresentations of Enoch's writings on anti-Enoch sites that you would like to post from, lazily, as your own reason for not believing Enoch is the Word of God, as Jesus called it, and also preached from it His Gospel, about His own work.
You said if even one contradiction could be found in Enoch to the OT and NT then it disqualified it as inspired, and yet I showed many more than one contradictions in the false accusations you pasted [not of your own research in the Book of Enoch, comparing it to the O and N Testaments], so obviously that site is disqualified as truth or in any manner of the Holy Spirit.
I could respond to every single point you pasted from there, but as I said, I gave evidence that they are liars, and not to be trusted, with what I already posted in response.
Last edited by yeshuasavedme; 09-09-2011 at 11:42 AM..
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