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Old 02-27-2023, 09:19 AM
 
Location: NC
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Yes, Oakback. God bless.
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Old 02-27-2023, 10:12 AM
 
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God's Word says that we are saved by grace through faith in Christ Jesus and not by our own efforts or works (Ephesians 2:8-9). Grace Alone. Faith Alone. Grace alone means that God loves, forgives, and saves us not because of who we are or what we do, but because of the work of Christ.

2 Timothy 2:13
if we are faithless, He remains faithful, for He cannot deny Himself.

Our faith is worthless because we change it just like the wind. The faith talked about is the one in Christ that he has for us. that will never fail!
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Old 02-27-2023, 10:23 AM
 
721 posts, read 230,279 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JerZ View Post
Everyone brings up Hitler as the ultimate gotcha. We can't know whether Hitler is reconciled with God yet. If everyone ultimately will be, so will Hitler.

I do not say that lightly. I am sickened by the sight of him. Like everyone is. I click away fast as if his horrific evil will rub off on me. I cringe away from reading his name. He is our personification of literal evil.

Can God refine even Hitler from the broken and sick person he was while on earth? God can do anything.
This is how Hitler gets refined. When you die you have a life review. In this review, all things good and bad are shown. An example from an NDE I read recently...a man said he beat someone up pretty good once. When this moment came up during the review, he lived the other person during getting beaten up, felt everything, even his cheekbone crunching and all the pain that does with that. You will feel all the pain and all the joy as well that you spread to others. Now imagine what Hitler is going through living the moment of pain he caused for each and every person. I believe the miracle is God being able to save someone like Hitler without Hitler self destructing or something like that due to crushing remorse.
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Old 02-27-2023, 12:50 PM
 
Location: https://jesus-saves-all.com/
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Psalm 138:4 "ALL the kings of the earth shall praise you, 0 Lord, when they hear the words of your mouth."
All kings, all people, everyone saved. All people will hear the good news of Christ washing away all sins. Faith comes from hearing after all! And thus all people will hear, therefore all people will have faith. And the kings will tell their subjects of this good news too
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Old 02-27-2023, 12:53 PM
 
Location: https://jesus-saves-all.com/
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The most important thing is saving souls, spreading the good news, that Jesus Christ will save everyone. Believe in Jesus Christ with faith alone and be saved! But it’s also good to save enough money to support your family. Generosity can go to your own family members, friends, strangers, anyone you decide in the moment to give money to!

Proverbs 19:17 Whoever is generous to the poor lends to the Lord, and he will repay him for his deed.



Luke 12:33-34 Sell your possessions, and give to the needy. Provide yourselves with moneybags that do not grow old, with a treasure in the heavens that does not fail, where no thief approaches and no moth destroys. For where your treasure is, there will your heart be also.

Why does giving to the needy allow us to store up treasures in Heaven that does not fail?

Because when we help people in need, we show love to them, we fulfill the law. The reason we were created on Earth was so we can learn love. At first, people only obeyed the commandments out of fear of punishment, but eventually, everyone will follow the commandments because people truly love each other. Everyone will be taught love and thus everyone will be saved by Jesus Christ with faith alone!

What is the treasure in the Heavens that does not fail?

It’s our relationship that we’ve built with other people! That is the treasure that never fails! Love never fails! Love is treasure!

1 Cor. 13:8 "Love never fails."



This proves that Eternal Conscious Torment is wrong! Imagine you have a treasure with someone, but that person didn’t believe in Jesus Christ before they died so they’re getting tortured in Hell forever. That treasure failed! Because you’re in Heaven and can’t talk with them anymore! The truth is that Sheol, the realm of the dead, is separation from the Lord, who is life. And everyone will have their relationships with everyone else restored, because all the people in Sheol will believe in Christ Jesus with faith alone to wash away all of their sins, death, and be given life!

Lam. 3:31, 32 "The Lord will NOT cast off forever. Though He causes grief, yet He will show compassion according to the multitude of His mercies."



This proves Annihilationism (Conditional Immortality) is wrong! Imagine you had a treasure of a relationship with someone else and then they’re permanently destroyed. That treasure failed! Because they’re gone and you can’t talk with them anymore. The truth is that nobody will be destroyed forever, everyone will eventually believe in Jesus Christ with faith only and have all their sins, death, washed away and gain permanent life!

Psalm 24:1 "The EARTH is the Lord's and ALL its fullness, the world and those who dwell therein."



This guarantees that Universal Salvation through Christ is true. Because who has received what another has given? Everyone! And who will give what another person will receive? Everyone!

At one point in our lives, we have all been given something by God, life. Thus, the relationship that the Lord has with every single one of us is a treasure! A treasure in Heaven that never fails! Thus, the Almighty Lord will retrieve all of His treasures by convincing everyone to believe in Jesus Christ and be saved!

Psalm 13:5 I trust in your unfailing love; my heart rejoices in your salvation.



Matthew 6:19-21 Do not lay up for yourselves treasures on earth, where moth and rust destroy and where thieves break in and steal, but lay up for yourselves treasures in heaven, where neither moth nor rust destroys and where thieves do not break in and steal. For where your treasure is, there your heart will be also.

This verse proves that everyone will have permanent life! Because our treasures in Heaven are the friends we’ve made alone the way!



Proverbs 8:21 Granting an inheritance to those who love me, and filling their treasuries.

Our treasuries are the collection of relationships we’ve accumulated with others over the years! Being generous is not just about giving people money, but giving them our time to help them, giving them a shoulder to rest on, an ear that listens to them. So even poor people can give, be generous and store up treasures (relationships) in Heaven.



Luke 18:22 When Jesus heard this, he said to him, “One thing you still lack. Sell all that you have and distribute to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven; and come, follow me.”

The Parable of the Rich Ruler reveals to us a man who has kept all the commandments, yet Jesus tells him he still lacks one thing. What does he lack? Love.

First, this Parable is a reference to faith alone salvation. Keeping the commandments does not save us, it’s only faith alone in Jesus Christ, love, in the smallest amount in Jesus Christ.

Second, this Rich Ruler did not build any relationships with other people, He did not show love. All this richness, he stored just for himself. By distributing to the poor, he would create treasure in Heaven, because our relationships with people shine like a precious jewel.



Matthew 12:35 The good person out of his good treasure brings forth good, and the evil person out of his evil treasure brings forth evil.

The relationships we have must be good. Good relationships give us good treasures, ones of love, gentleness, kindness, respect. There can be evil relationships, like abusive relationships, that bring out evil treasure. Eventually, all relationships will become good, because all people will have faith alone in Christ Jesus and be washed away of all their evil.



With relationships, it’s not just about the quantity, but the quality too. I could have a pile of common gems (many acquaintances) equivalent in monetary value to a small diamond on a ring (one strong friendship).



1 Corinthians 13:3 If I give away all I have, and if I deliver up my body to be burned, but have not love, I gain nothing.

Physical treasures go away. But friendship with others is eternal, because we will all have eternal life through faith alone in Christ, who loved us first, who treasured us first, who wished to have a relationship with us first, so we can have relationships, treasures, with others too.



In Heaven, everyone will still have the opportunity to create relationships, to store up treasures, in Heaven, even after death. There are some who have started storing up these treasures on Earth, early in advance, before others. But everyone will guaranteed have treasure in Heaven. Why? Because everyone will have a relationship with Christ! All people will believe in Jesus Christ with faith alone and be saved.

Matthew 6:4 So that your giving may be in secret. And your Father who sees in secret will reward you.
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Old 02-27-2023, 01:37 PM
 
Location: Free State of Texas
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Enemies of God

Raging fire will consume the enemies of God (Heb. 10:27).

“You adulterous people, don’t you know that friendship with the world is hatred toward God? Anyone who chooses to be a friend of the world becomes an enemy of God (James 4:4).

https://truediscipleship.com/12-reas...niversalism-3/
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Old 02-27-2023, 01:59 PM
 
491 posts, read 150,122 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ShanaBrown View Post
:

2 Thessalonians 18 in flaming fire, giving vengeance to those not knowing God, and to those not obeying the good news of our Lord Jesus Christ;

9 who shall suffer justice -- destruction age-during -- from the face of the Lord, and from the glory of his strength,

10 when He may come to be glorified in his saints, and to be wondered at in all those believing -- because our testimony was believed among you -- in that day; Young's Literal Translation






On destruction in the passage


ol'-eth-ros
Noun Masculine
ruin, destroy, death
for the destruction of the flesh, said of the external ills and troubles by which the lusts of the flesh are subdued and destroyed

NT Greek Lexicon https://www.biblestudytools.com/lexi.../olethros.html


Posted above


Many will experience loss, separation, tribulation, destruction, the judgments of God, the second death. This is all a part of the process of humbling the unbeliever so that he or she calls out to God, realizing the need for Jesus..

God bless
Does Satan and his angels receive redemption too, do they become saved?
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Old 02-27-2023, 07:57 PM
 
Location: NC
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I share again what the scriptures present in Colossians 1


15 [x]He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of all creation: 16 for [y]by Him all things were created, both in the heavens and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones, or dominions, or rulers, or authorities—all things have been created through Him and for Him. 17 He [z]is before all things, and in Him all things [aa]hold together. 18 He is also the head of the body, the church; and He is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead, so that He Himself will come to have first place in everything. 19 For [ab]it was the Father’s good pleasure for all the [ac]fullness to dwell in Him, 20 and through Him to reconcile all things to Himself, whether things on earth or things in [ad]heaven, having made peace through the blood of His cross..NASB

Some Christian Universalists believe that they will receive redemption too and some do not believe this. Some are not sure. But Jesus told us that all things are possible with God.

God bless.

Last edited by ShanaBrown; 02-27-2023 at 09:23 PM..
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Old 02-27-2023, 08:27 PM
 
Location: NC
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On some who believe that Christian Universalism is some New Age philosophy or teaching. The belief in the restoration of all to God has existed since the early days of the church. It is referenced to, in the Old Testament scriptures. Here are quotes by some early Christian Universalists, some who were considered to be fathers in the early church. Augustine's quote is about the many who did not believe in eternal hell. We also know that many who believed in the eventual restoration of all to God taught eternal hell to the masses sadly. This was known as the Doctrine of Reserve.



The mass of men (Christians) say there is to be an end to punishment and to those who are punished.—St. Basil the Great

There are very many in our day, who though not denying the Holy Scriptures, do not believe in endless torments. — Augustine (354-430 A.D.)

For the wicked there are punishments, not perpetural, however, lest the immortality prepared for them should be a disadvantage, but they are to be purified for a brief period according to the amount of malice in their works. They shall therefore suffer punishment for a short space, but immortal blessedness having no end awaits them…the penalties to be inflicted for their many and grave sins are very far surpassed by the magnitude of the mercy to be showed to them. –Diodore of Tarsus, 320-394 A.D.

And God showed great kindness to man, in this, that He did not suffer him to continue being in sin forever; but as it were, by a kind of banishement, cast him out of paradise in order that, having punishment expiated within an appointed time, and having been disciplined, he should afterwards be recalled…just as a vessel, when one being fashioned it has some flaw, is remoulded or remade that it may become new and entire; so also it happens to man by death. For he is broken up by force, that in the resurrection he may be found whole; I mean spotless, righteous and immortal. –Theophilus of Antioch (168 A.D.)



These, if they will, may go Christ’s way, but if not let them go their way. In another place perhaps they shall be baptized with fire, that last baptism, which is not only painful, but enduring also; which eats up, as if it were hay, all defiled matter, and consumes all vanity and vice. –Gregory of Nazianzeu, Bishop of Constantinople. (330 to 390 A.D.) Oracles 39:19


In the end and consummation of the Universe all are to be restored into their original harmonious state, and we all shall be made one body and be united once more into a perfect man and the prayer of our Savior shall be fulfilled that all may be one. –St. Jerome, 331-420

For it is evident that God will in truth be all in all when there shall be no evil in existence, when every created being is at harmony with iteself and every tongue shall confess that Jesus Christ is Lord; when every creature shall have been made one body. –Gregory of Nyssa, 335-390

The wicked who have committed evil the whole period of their lives shall be punished till they learn that, by continuing in sin, they only continue in misery. And when, by this means, they shall have been brought to fear God, and to regard Him with good will, they shall obtain the enjoyment of His grace. –Theodore of Mopsuestia, 350-428

We can set no limits to the agency of the Redeemer to redeem, to rescue, to discipline in his work, and so will he continue to operate after this life. –Clement of Alexandria


Do not suppose that the soul is punished for endless eons (apeirou aionas) in Tartarus. Very properly, the soul is not punished to gratify the revenge of the divinity, but for the sake of healing. But we say that the soul is punished for an aionion period (aionios) calling its life and its allotted period of punishment, its aeon. –Olnmpiodorus (AD 550)

Wherefore, that at the same time liberty of free-will should be left to nature and yet the evil be purged away, the wisdom of God discovered this plan; to suffer man to do what he would, that having tasted the evil which he desired, and learning by experience for what wretchedness he had bartered away the blessings he had, he might of his own will hasten back with desire to the first blessedness …either being purged in this life through prayer and discipline, or after his departure hence through the furnace of cleansing fire.–Gregory of Nyssa (332-398 A.D.)

That in the world to come, those who have done evil all their life long, will be made worthy of the sweetness of the Divine bounty. For never would Christ have said, “You will never get out until you have paid the last penny” unless it were possible for us to get cleansed when we paid the debt. –Peter Chrysologus, 435

I know that most persons understand by the story of Nineveh and its king, the ultimate forgiveness of the devil and all rational creatures. –St. Jerome

“In the end or consummation of things, all shall be restored to their original state, and be again united in one body. We cannot be ignorant that Christ’s blood benefited the angels and those who are in hell; though we know not the manner in which it produced such effects. The apostate angels shall become such as they were created; and man, who has been cast out of paradise, shall be restored thither again. And this shall be accomplished in such a way, that all shall be united together by mutual charity, so that the members will delight in each other, and rejoice in each other’s promotion. The apostate angels, and the prince of this world, though now ungovernable, plunging themselves into the depths of sin, shall, in the end, embrace the happy dominion of Christ and His saints.” – COMMENTARY ON THE NEW TESTAMENT – Jerome (347-420 A.D.)

Our Lord is the One who delivers man [all men], and who heals the inventor of evil himself. — Gregory of Nyssa (332-398 A.D.), leading theologian of the Eastern Church

While the devil thought to kill One [Christ], he is deprived of all those cast out of hades, and he [the devil] sitting by the gates, sees all fettered beings led forth by the courage of the Saviour.–Athanasius, the Great Father of Orthodoxy

Our Lord descends, and was shut up in the eternal bars, in order that He might set free all who had been shut up… The Lord descended to the place of punishment and torment, in which was the rich man, in order to liberate the prisoners. –Jerome

In the liberation of all no one remains a captive! At the time of the Lord’s passion the devil alone was injured by losing all the of the captives he was keeping. –Didymus, 370 AD

While the devil imagined that he got a hold of Christ, he really lost all of those he was keeping. –St. Chrysostom, 398 AD

Stronger than all the evils in the soul is the Word, and the healing power that dwells in him, and this healing He applies, according to the will of God, to everyman. The consummation of all things is the destruction of evil…to quote Zephaniah: “My determination to gather the nations, that I am assemble the kings, to pour upon them mine indignation, even say all my fierce anger, for all the earth shall be devoured with the fire of my jealousy. For then will I turn to the people a pure language that they may all call upon the name of the Lord, to serve Him with one consent”…Consider carefully the promise, that all shall call upon the Name of the Lord, and serve him with one consent.—Origen (185 to 254 A.D.) He founded a school at Caesarea, and is considered by historians to be one of the great theologians and exegete of the Eastern Church.

The nations are gathered to the Judgment, that on them may be poured out the wrath of the fury of the Lord, and this in pity and with a design to heal. in order that every one may return to the confession of the Lord, that in Jesus’ Name every knee may bow, and every tongue may confess that He is Lord. All God’s enemies shall perish, not that they cease to exist, but cease to be enemies.—Jerome (340 to 420 A.D), commenting on Zephaniah 3:8-10

Mankind, being reclaimed from their sins, are to be subjected to Christ in he fullness of the dispensation instituted for the salvation of all. –Didymus the Blind

So then, when the end has been restored to the beginning, and the termination of things compared with their commencement, that condition of things will be re-established in which rational nature was placed, when it had no need to eat of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil; so that when all feeling of wickedness has been removed, and the individual has been purified and cleansed, He who alone is the one good God becomes to him “all,” and that not in the case of a few individuals, or of a considerable number, but He Himself is “all in all.” And when death shall no longer anywhere exist, nor the sting of death, nor any evil at all, then verily God will be “all in all” –Origen, De Prinicipiis, 3.6.3. (Origen founded a school at Caesarea, and is considered by historians to be one of the great theologians and exegete of the Eastern Church.)


The Son “breaking in pieces” His enemies is for the sake of remolding them, as a potter his own work; as Jeremiah 18;6 says: i.e., to restore them once again to their former state. –Eusebius of Caesarea (65 to 340 A.D). Bishop of Caesarea

Our Savior has appointed two kinds of resurrection in the Apocalypse. ‘Blessed is he that hath part in the first resurrection,’ for such come to grace without the judgment. As for those who do not come to the first, but are reserved unto the second resurrection, these shall be disciplined until their appointed times, between the first and the second resurrection.– Ambrose, Bishop of Milan (340-397 A.D.)

We think, indeed, that the goodness of God, through His Christ, may recall all His creatures to one end, even His enemies being conquered and subdued…. for Christ must reign until He has put all enemies under His feet. –Origen (185 to 254 A.D.) He founded a school at Caesarea, and is considered by historians to be one of the great theologians and exegete of the Eastern Church.

For it is needful that evil should some day be wholly and absolutely removed out of the circle of being. –Gregory of Nyssa (332-398 A.D.), leading theologian of the Eastern Church

In the present life God is in all, for His nature is without limits, but he is not all in all. But in the coming life, when mortality is at an end and immortality granted, and sin has no longer any place, God will be all in all. For the Lord, who loves man, punishes medicinally, that He may check the course of impeity. –Theodoret the Blessed, 387-458

All men are Christ’s, some by knowing Him, the rest not yet. He is the Savior, not of some and the rest not. For how is He Savior and Lord, if not the Savior and Lord of all?—Clement of Alexandria

Ref: https://forbiddentheology.com/#who-we-are



Today in our society in the USA, we hear a lot about everyone's rights. People want to express their rights and make sure the rights of others are protected. Have we ever thought about God's rights on our lives though? As our Creator, does He not have the right to do what He will with His own creation?

Many will say that God gave us complete free will to do whatever we want, to make choices without His interference. They are offended if it is suggested that God does influence our wills. This to them is not a reflection of true love.

But did your parents seek to influence your will for good? The Creator is much greater than our parents and He never fails in anything He does.

If God gave us complete free will, why is it then that the scriptures proclaim that one day every knee will bow in adoration and that every tongue will willingly give praise to Him? Why is it that all will be made subject to Him? This sounds like all wills will be changed and in submission to His will.

Does God not have the right to one day open all eyes, convince, and persuade all hearts that they should return to Him? Would it be wrong for Him to bring all into submission to His sovereign will? Why would this not be reflection of true love, love that delivers all out of the bondage to sin and destruction? Anyone who resists his or her own Creator is lost, deceived, ignorant, and a slave to sin.

God bless.

Last edited by ShanaBrown; 02-27-2023 at 09:20 PM..
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Old 02-27-2023, 08:45 PM
 
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Originally Posted by WalkintheLight View Post
Does Satan and his angels receive redemption too, do they become saved?
They're not people and AFAIK it is humans who are saved.
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