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You asked if I complain to the mods, although it was in the form of a statement, not a question.
And I gave you an answer - but apparently you are not able to comprehend what was said?
And nowhere did I say I don't believe, however I surely do not believe in eternal torment.
Oh I am sure you believe in something. But it appears to morph and change like a wisp of smoke. How convenient not to have any convictions and to be so lukewarm (with sound and fury)
You asked if I complain to the mods, although it was in the form of a statement, not a question.
And I gave you an answer - but apparently you are not able to comprehend what was said?
And nowhere did I say I don't believe, however I surely do not believe in eternal torment.
Quote:
Originally Posted by KJoe11
Oh I am sure you believe in something. But it appears to morph and change like a wisp of smoke. How convenient not to have any convictions and to be so lukewarm (with sound and fury)
Yes, I have convictions and believe certain things, but not in that god you have painted in your own image.
Because, neither one of you are gods, nor am I in need that you teach me or tell me how to interpret something. Especially, when I speak multiple languages and studied linguistics for over 38 years, including various translations. And, yes, the Scriptures were written by men, which is inclusive of multiple cultures and beliefs making the Bible syncretistic in nature, or if you prefer a hodgepodge of various beliefs that have been mixed and blended in one central belief system called Christianism. Interesting how the anointed sides with a fundamentalist who believes in eternal punishment and the false pit of HELL. Way to pick your team, Mate! ROTHLMAO
So says the man with all the self-stuck labels hanging off himself. He who sees Himself as more qualified, than the best of our translators of the ancient Greek language, and who lacks all faith in the Holy Scriptures, of which God is the author, whose words were recorded by his earthly scribes..
BTW, there is such a thing as eternal punishment, and that punishment which lasts for eternity, is the 'SECOND DEATH' from which there is no return for all eternity. 'NO eternal torment,' but total oblivion sweet nothingness.
So says the man with all the self-stuck labels hanging off himself. He who sees Himself as more qualified, than the best of our translators of the ancient Greek language, and who lacks all faith in the Holy Scriptures, of which God is the author, whose words were recorded by his earthly scribes.
My faith is in God, not the Bible, which by the way is not inerrant or infallible.
Quote:
BTW, there is such a thing as eternal punishment, and that punishment which lasts for eternity, is the 'SECOND DEATH' from which there is no return for all eternity. 'NO eternal torment,' but total oblivion sweet nothingness.
No matter how many times you proclaim that nonsense, doesn't make it truth. And, no, there is no such thing as eternal punishment, which we've been over a few posts back. Ironically, now you are disagreeing with you own words. What? Can't remember that you agreed with me, when I said there was no such thing as eternal punishment/torment, and anyone that believes there is - is sadly mistaken?
It's a limited duration of aionion (αἰώνιον - a period of time as in an age) kalasin (Κόλασιν - chastisement or correction) which is in view; but the day and hour that it begins and ends is unpredictable.
BTW - eternity is not mentioned in the Bible, it is merely that of what is over the horizon.
IMPERCEPTIBLE - much like that of Sheol and Hades, which has nothing to do with eternity.
My faith is in God, not the Bible, which by the way is not inerrant or infallible.
No matter how many times you proclaim that nonsense, doesn't make it truth. And, no, there is no such thing as eternal punishment, which we've been over a few posts back. Ironically, now you are disagreeing with you own words. What? Can't remember that you agreed with me, when I said there was no such thing as eternal punishment/torment, and anyone that believes there is - is sadly mistaken?
It's a limited duration of aionion (αἰώνιον - a period of time as in an age) kalasin (Κόλασιν - chastisement or correction) which is in view; but the day and hour that it begins and ends is unpredictable.
BTW - eternity is not mentioned in the Bible, it is merely that of what is over the horizon.
IMPERCEPTIBLE - much like that of Sheol and Hades, which has nothing to do with eternity.
The God as revealed in the Holy Scriptures is certainly not your God, so who is this god in who you put your faith?
I agreed with you that there is no such thing as eternal torment for the disembodied spirits of human beings, but disagreed with your erroneous statement that there is no eternal punishment, for the punishment of the 'SECOND DEATH' is eternal.
So is the spiritual lake of fire eternal, in which the Devil, the Beast, and the false prophet are tormented forever and ever and ever more.
I honestly cannot understand why you sometimes cherry pick from the Holy Scriptures which you reject, to defend your erroneous concepts
My faith is in God, not the Bible, which by the way is not inerrant or infallible.
No matter how many times you proclaim that nonsense, doesn't make it truth. And, no, there is no such thing as eternal punishment, which we've been over a few posts back. Ironically, now you are disagreeing with you own words. What? Can't remember that you agreed with me, when I said there was no such thing as eternal punishment/torment, and anyone that believes there is - is sadly mistaken?
It's a limited duration of aionion (αἰώνιον - a period of time as in an age) kalasin (Κόλασιν - chastisement or correction) which is in view; but the day and hour that it begins and ends is unpredictable.
BTW - eternity is not mentioned in the Bible, it is merely that of what is over the horizon.
IMPERCEPTIBLE - much like that of Sheol and Hades, which has nothing to do with eternity.
Greek scholar Dr. William Barclay wrote concerning kolasis aionion (age-during corrective chastisement) in Matthew 25:46
“The Greek word for punishment is kolasis, which was not originally an ethical word at all. It originally meant the pruning of trees to make them grow better. There is no instance in Greek secular literature where kolasis does not mean remedial punishment. It is a simple fact that in Greek kolasis always means remedial punishment. God’s punishment is always for man’s cure.”
“The word aidios (not aionios) was in universal use among the non-Christian Greek Jews of our Savior's day, to convey the idea of eternal duration, and was used by them to teach endless punishment.
Jesus never allowed himself to use it in connection with punishment, nor did any of His disciples but one, and he but once, and then carefully and expressly limited its meaning. Can demonstration go further than this to show that Jesus carefully avoided the phraseology by which His contemporaries described the doctrine of endless punishment?
Jesus never adopted the language of His day on this subject.
Their language was aidios timoria, endless torment.
His language was aionion kolasin, age-lasting correction.
They described unending ruin, He, discipline, resulting in reformation.” - Dr. John W. Hanson-
You asked if I complain to the mods, although it was in the form of a statement, not a question.
And I gave you an answer - but apparently you are not able to comprehend what was said?
And nowhere did I say I don't believe, however I surely do not believe in eternal torment.
Quote:
Originally Posted by KJoe11
Oh I am sure you believe in something. But it appears to morph and change like a wisp of smoke. How convenient not to have any convictions and to be so lukewarm (with sound and fury)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jerwade
Yes, I have convictions and believe certain things, but not in that god you have painted in your own image.
Quote:
Originally Posted by KJoe11
You Just can’t help in not being honest and truthful. I have no opinion other than the Bible is true.
What you are selling is death (full of sound and glory)
I am very honest, and I have informed you that your doctrine of eternal damnation is a false teaching, which you want to hold onto at all cost, even being critical of me by believing that you will be punished - if you believed or thought otherwise? Most of what I oppose is eternal damnation, the thought of demons, and the so called devil or Satan of Christianism. And that of fallen angels (messengers) that are not human. Nowhere, have I hidden this from anyone on this forum or elsewhere. Now, why don't you come up with some integrity of your own?
"Jesus knew that John 3:16 was not the end of the story…that’s why He continued to John 3:17 and talked about the salvation of all mankind.
Jesus makes no attempt to use verse 16 to negate or qualify verse 17. He simply makes both statements side by side as if both are completely true. The reason He does this is that both are completely true.
We see this over and over in Scripture, especially in the writings of Paul – a statement about people who have faith now (maybe a warning or exhortation or encouragement about the benefits of taking part in the kingdom of God a.k.a. the next two ages of life on earth right next to a statement about how Christ accomplished the justification of all men. See Romans 3:23-24 and 5:18 and their contexts for example.
This is no big deal; none of these statements negate, qualify (change), or contradict each other, because both concepts are 100% true. Some will be saved from death early and take part in the kingdom of God, and everyone else will be saved from death later.
To attempt to use some statements (about those who get saved early) to negate the others statements (about the eventual salvation of all) is to butcher the common sense rules of language and communication. We would never do this to each other in everyday communication; the only reason people try to do it to Jesus and Paul is because they cannot bring themselves to believe the plain statements about the eventual salvation of all mankind.
If I said to my kids, “Those of you who help me clean the yard today will get to go to a movie with me tomorrow, and next week I will take the rest of you to a movie,” I have made it very clear that all the kids will eventually go to the movies. My two statements do not contradict each other or negate each other in any way. This is the exact same thing Jesus does in John 3:16 and 17 – He makes two equally true statements. Yet “hell mindset” Christians try to make one statement negate the other in order to fit their preconceived inherited ideas." -Kenneth Larsen-
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