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John was also trying to explain the question posed to him in language his contemporary hearers might understand.
"Eternal life is contrasted with the “wrath of God” as the “harvest” a person reaps if he or she refuses to believe in Jesus, the Son of God. Eternal life is not just endless life but also fullness of life, the kind of life that the Holy Trinity enjoys and promises us. But what is the “wrath of God” which awaits those who do not believe? Is it the fiery anger of God, his intense desire to punish the evil and disobedient? The so-called “wrath” of God is none other than God’s opposition or “anger” towards evil, and not just any form of anger, like human anger. God opposes any form of evil, but he does not “show” it as some of us imagine, like willfully sending us typhoons, or earthquakes, or pandemics. The text in our reading says “the wrath of God remains (Greek menei) upon him.” More likely the expression means that our refusal to believe in his Son and, implicitly, to live contrary to his teachings, will be met by God’s opposition in terms of making the person experience the natural effects of living without faith or doing evil."
John was also trying to explain the question posed to him in language his contemporary hearers might understand.
"Eternal life is contrasted with the “wrath of God” as the “harvest” a person reaps if he or she refuses to believe in Jesus, the Son of God. Eternal life is not just endless life but also fullness of life, the kind of life that the Holy Trinity enjoys and promises us. But what is the “wrath of God” which awaits those who do not believe? Is it the fiery anger of God, his intense desire to punish the evil and disobedient? The so-called “wrath” of God is none other than God’s opposition or “anger” towards evil, and not just any form of anger, like human anger. God opposes any form of evil, but he does not “show” it as some of us imagine, like willfully sending us typhoons, or earthquakes, or pandemics. The text in our reading says “the wrath of God remains (Greek menei) upon him.” More likely the expression means that our refusal to believe in his Son and, implicitly, to live contrary to his teachings, will be met by God’s opposition in terms of making the person experience the natural effects of living without faith or doing evil."
Yes, I also look at it simply meaning we remain in a life of lack(Fallen short) and limitation(Fallen short), which being in that state conjures up thoughts that God is angry with you and ready to condemn you for every mistake.
John is just saying if you do not believe Jesus and follow His instructions, you will not change what you are BECOMING so whatever negative consequences exist for what you are becoming will still exist (abideth on you). Since He fervently believed that ALL negative consequences were from the wrath of God, that is why he phrased it that way. The primitiveness that was in John's mind is just that, that every negative thing no matter what is from the wrath of God. He could not think of it any other way so that is how he phrased it.
So, you are greater than John, having overcome the primitiveness of his thinking.
You will have to take that up with Jesus; who said that among those born of women there is none greater than John the Baptist.
Quote:
Originally Posted by pcamps
So if the chapter say that Jesus did not come to condemn the world but to save it, where does you wrath belief fit into that ?
If you had the wrath of God on your life while you were an unbeliever, do you not think you would be able to easily recognize it, considering the awfulness of how you believe it to be ?
Any condemnation upon man is self condemnation. I also believe too, that anyone who has not forgiven themselves as well as accepted the unconditional forgiveness of God is not completely free.
It says that in John 3:17. Did you read the context?
Jhn 3:18, He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.
Jhn 3:19, And this is the condemnation, that light is come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil.
Jhn 3:20, For every one that doeth evil hateth the light, neither cometh to the light, lest his deeds should be reproved.
Jhn 3:21, But he that doeth truth cometh to the light, that his deeds may be made manifest, that they are wrought in God.
Quote:
Originally Posted by wellsmaine
John was also trying to explain the question posed to him in language his contemporary hearers might understand.
"Eternal life is contrasted with the “wrath of God” as the “harvest” a person reaps if he or she refuses to believe in Jesus, the Son of God. Eternal life is not just endless life but also fullness of life, the kind of life that the Holy Trinity enjoys and promises us. But what is the “wrath of God” which awaits those who do not believe? Is it the fiery anger of God, his intense desire to punish the evil and disobedient? The so-called “wrath” of God is none other than God’s opposition or “anger” towards evil, and not just any form of anger, like human anger. God opposes any form of evil, but he does not “show” it as some of us imagine, like willfully sending us typhoons, or earthquakes, or pandemics. The text in our reading says “the wrath of God remains (Greek menei) upon him.” More likely the expression means that our refusal to believe in his Son and, implicitly, to live contrary to his teachings, will be met by God’s opposition in terms of making the person experience the natural effects of living without faith or doing evil."
So, you are greater than John, having overcome the primitiveness of his thinking.
You will have to take that up with Jesus; who said that among those born of women there is none greater than John the Baptist.
It says that in John 3:17. Did you read the context?
Jhn 3:18, He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.
Jhn 3:19, And this is the condemnation, that light is come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil.
Jhn 3:20, For every one that doeth evil hateth the light, neither cometh to the light, lest his deeds should be reproved.
Jhn 3:21, But he that doeth truth cometh to the light, that his deeds may be made manifest, that they are wrought in God.
Teaching for itching ears.
This is what the Bible says.
Rom 1:18, For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who hold the truth in unrighteousness;
Did you read the context ...... He did not come to condemn.... Why not ? Because that is not of God. God did NOT change is mind one day and chose to stop condemning folk, He never did in the first place. Just like He did not one day choose to start loving the world, He always has loved the world.
Did you read the context ...... He did not come to condemn.... Why not ? Because that is not of God. God did NOT change is mind one day and chose to stop condemning folk, He never did in the first place. Just like He did not one day choose to start loving the world, He always has loved the world.
So who is doing the condemning ?
Christ (Romans 8:34).
Those who do not believe in Him are condemned already, according to the scriptures at hand.
Romans 8:34 Who then is the one who condemns? No one. Christ Jesus who died—more than that, who was raised to life—is at the right hand of God and is also interceding for us.
Romans 8:34 Who then is the one who condemns? No one. Christ Jesus who died—more than that, who was raised to life—is at the right hand of God and is also interceding for us.
John is just saying if you do not believe Jesus and follow His instructions, you will not change what you are BECOMING so whatever negative consequences exist for what you are becoming will still exist (abideth on you). Since He fervently believed that ALL negative consequences were from the wrath of God, that is why he phrased it that way. The primitiveness that was in John's mind is just that, that every negative thing no matter what is from the wrath of God. He could not think of it any other way so that is how he phrased it.
Quote:
Originally Posted by justbyfaith
So, you are greater than John, having overcome the primitiveness of his thinking.
You will have to take that up with Jesus; who said that among those born of women there is none greater than John the Baptist.
I have no doubt what Jesus said was true at the time of Jesus. Do you think there is no difference between the humans who existed at the time of Jesus and those of us who exist today????? Are you at all familiar with primitive history???? Clearly, you are not very well-educated about many things, brother.
I have no doubt what Jesus said was true at the time of Jesus. Do you think there is no difference between the humans who existed at the time of Jesus and those of us who exist today????? Are you at all familiar with primitive history???? Clearly, you are not very well-educated about many things, brother.
It depends on what you mean by "difference".
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