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Old 07-18-2021, 03:05 PM
 
Location: New Zealand
11,897 posts, read 3,705,401 times
Reputation: 1130

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Quote:
Originally Posted by jjGuru View Post
When lurkers come here to read this forum, and this thread in particular, they're most likely thinking along the lines of the final verse...lol
Yup

 
Old 07-18-2021, 03:11 PM
 
1,091 posts, read 278,991 times
Reputation: 95
Quote:
Originally Posted by jimmiej View Post
Well, even though we disagree on the % that will be saved, at least we agree on who it is that saves us.
That's right jimmiej. It's about Jesus, not us.
 
Old 07-18-2021, 03:41 PM
 
8,039 posts, read 1,845,403 times
Reputation: 143
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jerwade View Post
The law was in opposition to that of God, who was not holding their sins against them. Thus, the Old Covenant had to be done away with, as he desired mercy; not sacrifice. So, why are you insisting that there be a blood sacrifice to cover your SIN!

Apparently, you need to stop thinking that you are a teacher of the law which was established by men in an attempt to force it on others. Now, would you care to purchase two-turtle doves for your sacrifice, or a liter of fine flour? You can sprinkle a hand full for the sacrifice, then pocket the rest!


"With what shall I come before the Lord and bow down before the exalted G0D? Shall I come before him with – burnt offerings – with calves a year old? Will the Lord be pleased with thousands of rams – with ten thousand rivers of oil? Shall I offer my firstborn for my transgressions – the fruit of my body for the sin of my soul? He has shown you, O man, what is good..."

To obey is indeed better than sacrifice...however, because all have disobeyed (Romans 3:23) a sacrifice is needed.

Even the New Testament tells us that justification is through the blood of Christ (Romans 3:25, 5:9, 1 Corinthians 15:1-4).

So, if you are discounting Jesus as a blood sacrifice because the New Testamenr disparages the law (which, at a closer look, it doesn't), then just realize that the same New Testament substantiates the idea of Jesus dying on the Cross as a blood sacrifice for our sins.

Quote:
Originally Posted by jimmiej View Post
He justifies the ungodly who believe in Him.
Quote:
Originally Posted by jjGuru View Post
LOL...The ungodly do not believe. That's just it. If they did believe they would be called saints (Rom 1:7).
And, you are ignoring the scripture in question...which tells us that His justifying the ungodly applies only to those who believe.

We all start out as ungodly...and some of us cross over from ungodly unbelief into godly faith. But our behaviour may not change overnight. We must be transformed by the renewing of our minds (Romans 12:2); as the old way of thinking may continue to prevail even though we have been regenerated in our hearts.
 
Old 07-18-2021, 04:22 PM
 
1,091 posts, read 278,991 times
Reputation: 95
Quote:
Originally Posted by justbyfaith View Post
And, you are ignoring the scripture in question...which tells us that His justifying the ungodly applies only to those who believe.
That's not what the text says, though. Jesus died for the ungodly too (Rom 5:6). Do you believe Jesus died only for those who believe?
 
Old 07-18-2021, 04:26 PM
 
Location: Arizona
28,956 posts, read 16,369,586 times
Reputation: 2296
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jerwade View Post


The law was in opposition to that of God, who was not holding their sins against them. Thus, the Old Covenant had to be done away with, as he desired mercy; not sacrifice. So, why are you insisting that there be a blood sacrifice to cover your SIN!

Apparently, you need to stop thinking that you are a teacher of the law which was established by men in an attempt to force it on others. Now, would you care to purchase two-turtle doves for your sacrifice, or a liter of fine flour? You can sprinkle a hand full for the sacrifice, then pocket the rest!


"With what shall I come before the Lord and bow down before the exalted G0D? Shall I come before him with – burnt offerings – with calves a year old? Will the Lord be pleased with thousands of rams – with ten thousand rivers of oil? Shall I offer my firstborn for my transgressions – the fruit of my body for the sin of my soul? He has shown you, O man, what is good..."

Quote:
Originally Posted by justbyfaith View Post
To obey is indeed better than sacrifice...however, because all have disobeyed (Romans 3:23) a sacrifice is needed.

Even the New Testament tells us that justification is through the blood of Christ (Romans 3:25, 5:9, 1 Corinthians 15:1-4).

So, if you are discounting Jesus as a blood sacrifice because the New Testament disparages the law (which, at a closer look, it doesn't), then just realize that the same New Testament substantiates the idea of Jesus dying on the Cross as a blood sacrifice for our sins.
There is nothing more frightful than ignorance in action; and an unwillingness to learn.
Believe whatever you desire, it's not a concern of mine - that you choose to be ignorant.
 
Old 07-18-2021, 04:35 PM
 
Location: Arizona
28,956 posts, read 16,369,586 times
Reputation: 2296
Quote:
Originally Posted by jjGuru View Post
That's not what the text says, though. Jesus died for the ungodly too (Rom 5:6). Do you believe Jesus died only for those who believe?
Apparently, that's what he believes, but he has to void out several passages which step all over his self-righteous parade.
 
Old 07-18-2021, 04:44 PM
 
Location: the Kingdom of His dear Son
7,530 posts, read 3,030,030 times
Reputation: 275
Quote:
Originally Posted by jimmiej View Post
We’re all ungodly. That’s why we need saving. When we believe, we are saved.
Jimmie: Salvation in our Lord begins with His first awesome touch of Spirit and continues in past, present and future. We indeed need saving, and the Specialist is none other than the Lord Isous.

"God is the Saviour of all mankind" (not some of mankind, ALL)

"especially" (especially is NOT only)

"those who believe" or "those who trust Him".

"Command & teach"

“Heaven goes by favor. If it went by merit, you would stay out and your dog would go in.”
 
Old 07-18-2021, 05:20 PM
 
Location: Free State of Texas
20,442 posts, read 12,796,101 times
Reputation: 2497
Quote:
Originally Posted by jjGuru View Post
That's right jimmiej. It's about Jesus, not us.
Well, yes and no. Jesus did the work to save all of mankind, but each individual must access Christ’s righteousness by faith, belief.

Acts 16

30 Sirs, what must I do to be saved?”

31 They said, “Believe in the Lord Jesus, and you will be saved, you and your household.”

 
Old 07-18-2021, 05:24 PM
 
Location: Free State of Texas
20,442 posts, read 12,796,101 times
Reputation: 2497
Quote:
Originally Posted by jjGuru View Post
That's not what the text says, though. Jesus died for the ungodly too (Rom 5:6). Do you believe Jesus died only for those who believe?
No, He died for all, but that scripture clearly designates the one who believes.
 
Old 07-18-2021, 05:28 PM
 
Location: Arizona
28,956 posts, read 16,369,586 times
Reputation: 2296
Quote:
Originally Posted by jimmiej View Post
No, He died for all, but that scripture clearly designates the one who believes.
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